| Amanda | 11/16/08 | 1:28pm | Bam Bam it is rampant and it is in a major portion of homes in America and all across the planet. I hate it if it makes it sound like things are horrible..but guess what..they are. it isn't the exception to the rule that children are neglected, abused, abandoned and thrown out of their homes for nothing other then they are 'big' enough to work and feed themselves. it is not rare that parents are the torturers and rapists of their own children..and we all have known for a long time that these and many other crimes are 'under reported' and with good reason..these children are afraid in a very real sense for their very lives. Sorry, but I am not about to put a child from that sort of environment in a situation that is 100% lethal to what little bit of 'way of life' they may have. I look at it this way..if your relationship with your child is all that it should be then this law does not affect you, your child, or your family. Your child, if your relationship is all that, would never dream of doing something like this without you. This sort of law protects more then anything else. it protects kids who will undoubtedly have to suffer extreme penalties for having to bring a parent with them or inform them. |
| Mears Groups | 11/15/08 | 8:18pm | New poll thank you |
| Milkshake | 11/15/08 | 1:50pm | I agree. New poll. |
| Wallander | 11/15/08 | 1:05pm | Can we have a new poll please? : ) |
| Bam Bam | 11/15/08 | 6:03am | Amanda your right and I agree there is abuse without a doubt. But, I don't necessarily agree that it is rampant. That gives me the impression that it's in every home, which it's not. Besides, if it were in every home that would mean at least the parent cared enough to even pay attention...even if it was in a negative way. Alot of parents don't even care what their kids are doing. Just so long as the kid stays out of their hair, they don't care. Alot of these families are poor and kids just don't get the attention they deserve to even know better. You know they said a long time ago that we were the future, well all of us in here turned alright, we care about our country and I'm sure we even voted. But, if we were the future 25 years ago...imagine in 20-25 years who's going to be voting for amendments and laws and the President in the future. We have at least two to three generations of kids that are lost to society and are being raised by television and x-box. Kids with no self esteem, lack of concern for others and disrespect for life itself. They have been lost on a much higher level than what this poll asks. This question begs for a new and deeper perspective on today's kids in society. |
| Joey | 11/15/08 | 4:15am | It a shame that some children/teenagers are not able to approach their parents for whatever the reason being. I do believe however that in extreme circumstances that a minor should be allowed to seek an abortion without parental knowledge providing a responsible adult goes with them, perhaphs a social worker or something along those lines. |
| Black Milk | 11/14/08 | 4:33pm | I agree with Ed's last comment. Time for a new poll. |
| Bundy | 11/14/08 | 1:13am | Parents should be notified to make sure there is a support network at home and to ensure the procedure is done with safety with after care. Would be a difficult decision to give up a baby before or after birth. No one ownes another persons body.As difficult abortion is to except for some it is the youn adult that is the main focus here. |
| Milkshake | 11/13/08 | 7:12pm | I agree with your comment, Fly-On-the-Wall. Very well said. |
| Fly on the Wall | 11/13/08 | 3:33pm | I agree with some of you here:
Sometimes parents, although well-meaning, can cause even more problems for their kids. Adding strict religious fervor can be toxic as well to the problem (i.e. “If you have an abortion, we'll disown you. You will be dead to us.”) Yeah, just what some poor ol' scared girl needs - threats of rejection, being ostracized, shamed and getting no support from people who should be there for her unconditionally.
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The bigger problem is why there are people who insist that abortion should never happen under any circumstances including rape, incest etc……NOR DO THEY BELIEVE IN GIVING THE BABY UP FOR ADOPTION for example……won't help with programs that aid these females to take care of these babies once born - and years after. What's up with that? Compassion for the pre-born, but none for the mother?
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| Ed | 11/13/08 | 1:10pm | I think we all know where we stand on this issue. Maybe we need a new poll. I hope Pat comes back to chat with us soon. :) |
| Wallander | 11/13/08 | 12:52pm | It's all cool now Milkshake. Lets move on for now. I'm sure we'll have plenty opportunities for more misunderstandings in the future again! ;-D And i hope you're doing much better now Pat. It sounds to me the topic of this poll lies VERY close to many ppl's hearts in here! Everyone seems to have dealt with it one way or another, either as a parent, or perhaps as daughters of one's own parents. I guess it's pretty safe to say that the parents have come a long way since 40-50 yrs ago, and you are absolutely right Pat with regards to those "back alley clinics" which i'm quite sure, must have been a horrible experience for A LOT of young women's lives! But this does NOT change the fact that there are many moral issues today that need the attention of the society, i.e. how much influence the porno industry has on young ppl's sex lives, and should there be an alternative way to promote sex in a much more NATURAL way among the youngsters in the society?? Has porno become a product of a "plastic culture"? You know, the irony is that in the old days, porno films were made in order to promote a healthier & a more natural approach to sex(i'm thinking mostly about the Swedish porno films from the 60's & the 70's) but it seems almost everything about today's porno movies is wrong & morally reprehensive! It seems as though it has crossed over too many bounderies,that even I myself cannot defend! Btw Amanda, i hope you're doing better now, since that little mishap of yours a few days ago! ;-) |
| Amanda | 11/12/08 | 8:21pm | As a mother of two it is hard for me as well. I have a daughter that will be 18 in april.Needless to say the idea of not knowing really frightens me to a degree. But..if you take a few moments and do some research you'll find that abuse is something that is rampant in homes today. Above all else I think we need to remember that each child knows what sort of house they come from. Anyone with a reasonable, somber mind can see that while it is a horrid choice, there is no sense in loosing two lives all together. Horrible things happen..thats just life you know. |
| Milkshake | 11/12/08 | 7:51am | It's okay Wallander. The comment wasn't directed to you at all. Still love you! Still think you're funny! LOL Have a milkshake. hee hee |
| Pat | 11/12/08 | 7:03am | Hey everyone. Had to come to work today. My family needs me. WOW! I can't believe that everytime I am out for awhile how many people come back in here. I guess that lets me know where I stand. It shouldn't hurt, but it does. I had sooooooo much fun in here. I will come back every now and again. Then again, because I am so sick, I take it personally, BUT whatever!!!! Bill, I don't think you are a jerk. I am crying again because I feel your pain over your dear daughter and I can feel my heart hurting so bad. The same for you, Persipone and Bfly, it just kills me that you all lost loved ones. That is an unbearable pain, I will pray for you all to have ease and peace. Viva le shagger, that was soooo beautiful what you said about the Nightingale, I thought that was very sweet. Did anyone read my comment on 11-7-08 at 2:26? Just wondering is all. Milkshake, please don't feel bad over things that were said, Wallander likes you so much, he wouldn't want to hurt you. I agree with Wallander, we don't see facial expressions and the sounds of our voices, so that makes it hard somtimes to know if what we say is meant in innocence or anger or some other emotion. I did it to Amanda once, because I thought she typed in being nasty towards what I said and she didn't mean it that way at all. I still feel bad about it. It was just a horrible mistake on my part. I had been attacked a lot in the beginning on my feelings and beliefs about the planet and kids, so I guess I was kinda like a steam kettle. I'll be back sometime. It was fun while it lasted. Blessed Be. |
| Bill | 11/12/08 | 4:31am | Hi everyone. Thank you Ed, Wallander and Bfly. I appreciate your kindness. Bfly I am so sorry about your 2 nephews. You can rest assured that my daughter is in heaven looking out for them. She loved kids. I keep trying not to get depressed and lash out at people, but when it gets close to the holidays it gets worse for me, which I am sure it gets bad for alot of people who have lost a loved one. My friends and relatives tell me to cheer up, and it works for a while till I go home. Her room is still the same as she has left it. I know it's been three years it's time to move on, but I am not ready to let go. I want to say I enjoy the conversations that go on here on this website. Where is Pat? I hope she is ok. I enjoyed her silliness. Milkshake your also a good and funny person. I enjoy your comments. Well I have to go to work. Take Care Everyone! |
| Wallander | 11/12/08 | 2:52am | And i understand COMPLETELY what you mean Milkshake...these kinds of attacks can sometimes have devastating effects on the counterpart's nerves, in an online forum. Almost like being electricuted!! I've had my share of the same kind of treatment from a couple of other sites, and it was incredibly unpleasant for me to experience at times. So i completely understand your reaction Milkshake. I recall a while ago, speaking of the adverse effects of the internet communities, where ppl often let their own "shadows" loose! This is because so often you dont know where you have other ppl because you cannot see them physically!? The trust among ppl very often lasts only for as long as the few lines that are exchanged at a time, and then you go back to being the same mistrustful & EXTRA-cautious self again. And we seem to presume the worst about others intents, because what happens on the net seems to be completely out of anyone's control. Anyways, i hope you're feeling a lot better by now Milkshake! I care a GREAT deal about you in particular Milky because you were honestly the 1st person ever i talked to, in here, and i consider you as a very warm & caring soul. Take care. : ) |
| Wallander | 11/12/08 | 2:05am | I'm so so sorry Milkshake. I take it all back! It was because i thought your comment from 11/08/08, 11:51am was directed to me..which co-incidentally came right after my response to Pat. In any case, this is awfully embarrassing for myself...it is my own fault, & i have no choice but to chew on its crappy taste!!! :-( |
| Bfly | 11/11/08 | 3:40pm | Bill so sorry to hear about your loss of your beautiful daughter. I have lost 2 nephews..the first time I saw both of them was in their shoe box size cassit. It was and still is very hard essecially around the holidays. God Bless you in the coming months. I also voted that the parents should know, and I am pro choice, for the simple reason that I have no right to tell someone else what to do with their body! |
| Milkshake | 11/11/08 | 12:33pm | Also, Wallander I would like to add, that I don't appreciate getting attacked online for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I have no clue where that blow came from. |
| Milkshake | 11/11/08 | 12:08pm | Wallander??????? Wht in God's name are you talking about? I also cared Pat was ill and cared you were sick too. Everyone on here chats back and fort to eachother. I like you, Wallander. You are funny and I love your comments. So what the hell are you talking about? And why did you leave that message for me? |
| Ed | 11/11/08 | 8:19am | Good point Amanda. I would hope in those cases those girls have a support system outside the family where they could go for support and also someone to go with them so they are not alone. Amanda,I guess you helped me to change my vote to undecided. I worry about them getting hurt, but you are right some parents out there would be abusive to them. Maybe they should be an age requirement, like 16 and above you don't need to notify the parents. I don't know. This is a tricky one. I would want to do what is best for the girls. :) |
| Amanda | 11/11/08 | 4:35am | Persepone I am sorry for your loss. I can't imagine what it must be like to loose a baby that way. It's horrible. Araz, I agree that sometimes the parent is the most dangerous. There sounds like several good parents on this board, or those who if you aren't parents yet you would make good parents. We have to remember that not all parents are good and sometimes they are the worst for the child. It is these I look at and decide that the answer should be no. After all, if you are a good parent this law isn't going to affect you..your child will come to you because she knows she can. |
| Sara | 11/11/08 | 4:24am | I voted undecided. Of course I would want to know about any major medical operations.
But in this case, it would depend on how mature is the child and how will the parents deal with her.. Some parents can be downright harsh and cruel. I only hope if ever anything happens to my kids that they feel at ease enough to come to me with life's major problems. |
| Araz | 11/11/08 | 3:41am | Sometimes it is the parents that are most dangerous for the kid |
| Viva le shagger | 11/10/08 | 6:49pm | Is it Nightingle or nightingale?? Damn I better stop posting comments from my mobile because I dont have a chance to check my spelling errors or as in this case to check the word on an online dictionary! |
| Viva le shagger | 11/10/08 | 6:28pm | Nightingles are such amazing birds. They aren't like roosters who just love promising the coming morning light, due to their timid and fearful nature. No, the nightingles love to remind you that you can always find comfort, even in the midst of the pitch black darkness of the night. Be the brave nightingle and sing your most beautiful songs. (Joe the Shagger) |
| Persipone | 11/10/08 | 12:17pm | I don't think that anyone ever gets over losing a kid - and I don't think it even gets any better. It gets better for everyone else - except the parent. My baby son would have been 27 last September. Never saw him get out of diapers. Today, I get privately emotional when I meet a 27 year old man - I wonder - when is his birthday...?
I thought I was alone in this until I met an 85 year old woman last year who broke out it in tears - over her 5 year old son who was hit by a car in 1956 while riding his tricycle in the driveway. Her boy would have been 56 by that time!
There is nothing like losing a child. Nothing at all like it. All I can do is just keep moving every day. |
| Ed | 11/10/08 | 11:00am | Damn Bill, I am so sorry for what happened to your daughter. Man I just don't know how I would handle something like that. You are a very strong person. I would of hunted the SOB down and probably ran him over a few times. I know you don't want to hear this but as time goes by you will heal and find someone who will help ease the pain. Hang in there! As Wallander says be good to yourself, man you deserve it. |
| Wallander | 11/10/08 | 10:37am | I can only speak for myself Bill, but i doubt very much anyone in here thought of you as a jerk!?? I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter! Who the hell wouldn't be embittered by such an experience! Take care & be good to yourself buddy. : ) |
| Bill | 11/10/08 | 10:02am | I lost my daughter three years ago to a drunk driver, we were very close and we talked about everything. Including boys, sex etc. I know if she would of gotten pregnant I know she would of came to me for help. I know alot of you think I am a jerk for the way I have been behaving on the polls, but I am still a very bittter man. I lost my only daughter and then my wife left me. The jerk that did it did not spend any time in jail. He just got a slap on the hand. I apologize to all of you for my behavior. I wanted to let you know that I do agree that parents should be notified. |
| Wallander | 11/09/08 | 9:34pm | Hey Milkshake--if you don't mind--i was just trying to say something uplifting to Pat, because she mentioned she was feeling depressed sometimes, whenever she started to think about the final results of her tests...so on & so forth...i was NOT "pitying" her, nor was i trying to make it look worse than it was...i was ONLY concerned about her emotional state, as opposed to her test results! And i was also criticizing that mentality[i don't know if it is generally an American mentality, or a misconception of "positivism"...or just a universal mentality] that says, when you're talking to other people about how crappy you're feeling at the moment, it automatically implies that you're either a "spoiled brat" or a "loser"...well in my book, it only means that you love & care about yourself...& does NOT mean that you like to "whine"(as she put it herself)...simple as that! God, i really HATE having to explain myself everytime i make a comment that may be SLIGHTLY "different" from what all you self-appointed moderators regard as the consensus of what should be talked about...& how! Anyways, enough said...back to the topic.... |
| Amanda | 11/09/08 | 9:34pm | Persepone that is pretty much what I have been saying. If your parenting skills are what you say they are then yes, of course your child is going to come to you. But there are way too many people out there who reproduced..they aren't parents except by way of birth. I would not want to subject a child to even more abuse and abandonment over something like this. I feel a program with Good counciling and after care would be far better. |
| Milkshake | 11/09/08 | 7:42pm | WOW Persipone! I completely agree with your statement. Very nice. |
| Persipone | 11/09/08 | 3:58pm | This is a really, really sticky question. It would be ideal if the parents knew and were there to support the pregnant teen - and to give permission for further treatment, if something happens along the way. One the other hand, though, there are those kids who really are made expendable who are dumped from parents that have started new families and left out the older kid(s) from the previous life. It would also be nice on the one hand to have a teen emancipation program that would allow for certain rights for those under age that would not get these rights because their parents are out to lunch. BUT! This would also be an easy way for more parents of "unruly" children to disown them - and thus remove their responsibility for their child from themselves and legally dump their child on the streets. The kid ends up on the street anyway - so why not let them - and give them a program that gets them what they need to finish growing up...? Parental notification for minors seeking abortion is a symptom of a much larger problem, I am afraid.
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| Terry | 11/09/08 | 11:05am | For every parent who thinks they should be notified you need to look at your parenting skills. Your kids WILL tell you if you make sure they know that they can. I never got pregnant as a teen, and my mom told me after watching the news and hearing about some stupid teen throwing her newborn in the garbage, that I was never to do that, and if I got pregnant I should tell her. If you have open communication with your kids, they WILL tell you. You won't need to be notified by the government. |
| Amy | 11/08/08 | 1:38pm | This was a tough one for me. I had a tough mom, one whom I would have been terrified to tell had I become pregnant as a teen. However, maybe that strictness made sure I did not become pregnant. I know there are a ton of good families out there and teen pregnancy can still happen. But if my daughter had this happen to her, I would hope I'd be notified! Abortion is a medical procedure that can have complications. I'd want to know so I could be there for support, and to make sure it was done in the most capable way. |
| Milkshake | 11/08/08 | 11:51am | I was just reading something and went HUH? |
| Wallander | 11/08/08 | 9:41am | I hope the final results of your tests turn out just fine Pat! It is OK to "whine" in here, and share some of your own depression with others....in any case, you should NEVER do the opposite...you should NOT try to carry all that weight on your own shoulder.....hell, i'd make sure i made EVERYONE sick of hearing my depressing stories, if it were me! Because that's a healthy sign that you love yourself...& NOT that old outworn idea that you are a "spoiled brat"!!! What a load of baloney! In any case, i hope you accept this half-ass attempt to try to make you feel better, as evident that we DO care! And plz DO tell us how it goes when you get the final results of your tests next week! Lots of hugs/wallander |
| Bam Bam | 11/08/08 | 8:39am | I wonder if there is no love and abuse...will they (the parents) even care enough about it to get mad about it. |
| Amanda | 11/07/08 | 11:54pm | This issue really goes way beyond sex ed to me. We can talk about education all you want..but when a young girl comes from a home with no love in it and only abuse..she's going to do what comes natural..Now, let that same girl get pregnant and tell her parents..well you may not have to worry about the abortion killing her..her parents will do it. |
| Pat | 11/07/08 | 2:26pm | Hey everyone. Came back from more tests. Will find out what is going on hopefully by the end of next week. I am starting to get a little depressed from not knowing what is going on. I am so sick and tired of being sick and tired, but enough of my whining. Talking about these abortions for minors, my daughter had an abortion in her teens, she was 6 weeks pregnant. She hates she had to do it, but I told her it was her decision. I hurt so bad for her at the time. She said that would never happen again...and it didn't. We always talked about everything and always had and have a good relationship. It doesn't matter what the home life is, things can still happen. Kids can listen to everything you talk with them about and things they talk to you about, but sometimes there can always be things that happen. I think some kids don't tell their parent/parents because of fear or shame or don't want their parent/parents to be disappointed in them. Then many times they are too far along to do anything about it by the time you find out about it. This is so sad for the kids and the parents. If only some parents would not go ballistic on their teen. I know there are wonderful parents out there in the world, but there are so many bad parents, also. I have to admit that I did feel disappointment, but I kept that to myself, because she came first. I can't say yes, because of the fact of how many parents would react in horrible ways. I can't say no, because there are so many girls that are too young to do this without parents knowing. Not counting 9 and 10 year olds getting pregnant, but 13-16 year olds are too young to do this without some form of male/female relative knowing. As long as the girl could let some relative know and get the abortion it would be better than nothing at all. I agree that there should be abstinence, but that is not going to happen in today's society. I feel for the parent and the teen. This is such a sad situation. We do not need anymore back-alley abortions with thousands of teens and young women dying. |
| Bam Bam | 11/07/08 | 12:41pm | I wouldn't tell my daughter what to do with her body, but I wouldn't want someone operating on her without my knowledge or consent. Especially since kids don't know the difference between backhole abortion clinics and respectable clean legitimate offices with Dr's who know what they're doing. Did you hear about the woman in Florida who's aborted baby was born alive? The girl was in pain overnight due to the meds they gave her and when her baby boy was born they refused to call 911 and they demanded they hand over the baby so they could finish the job. Now another clinic in Hialeah Florida is under investigation for the same thing. Kids cannot make these decisions themselves, regardless of the parents reactions we must protect the kids from this sort of thing too. We can only protect our own. We must encourage kids to be smart and abstain from sex. The clinic by the way is being sued by the first woman. |
| Jeanne | 11/07/08 | 10:25am | I think that this should be so. I wouldn't want someone telling me what to do with my body. |
| Amanda | 11/07/08 | 9:24am | I agree Wallander. It speaks volumes about families in general now. If parent child relationships were over all the norm here then a law like this really would not be needed or questioned. I lean actually toward being law to license parents. Why not..you have permits for everything under the sun. Anyone can give birth providing they have the ability. Being a parent though is another matter. There is a difference. |
| Milkshake | 11/07/08 | 9:06am | I know! How about this: Every female that's a minor must go on the pill! That way we can avoid this kind of abusive crap. No. That's not a good idea either. Maybe there should be a law that in case a minor gets pregnant, that the parent can not kick their son/daughter on the streets. Or how about this: In case minor is pregnant; minor shall not get the crap beat out of them. It would be really nice if every child or teen can freely talk to their parents and feel safe inside. |
| Claire | 11/07/08 | 8:32am | No, depending on the circumstances, the maturity and understanding of the child invloved. Every case on its own merits. |
| Bam Bam | 11/07/08 | 7:03am | Haven't we done this question before? Depends on the age of the child. But, yes absolutely...abortions beleive it or not are dangerous. No one is touching my daughter without notifying me. These kids are not the age of majority - that means they cannot sign for themselves! Not telling your parents means your afraid or ashamed. Kids shouldn't be having sex to begin with and it all goes back to the parents. I know, I know not all parents are nice - they will beat the kids - I can't answer for these parents...I can only answer for me. |
| Wallander | 11/07/08 | 5:46am | I think it's safe to say that this question goes straight to the core of the daughter/parents relationship. So on that account you may NOT even be able to formulate an objective & universal law that would satisfy ALL. There will always be a group that suffers as a result of such a law, regardless of being in favor of, or against one group or the other, simply because some parents may be TOO STRICT on their daughters while other parents, TOO nonchalant. Perhaps the BEST kind of law would be, to make sure that the daughter/parent relationship is a healthy one, under every roof & among every family...something like what Ed partially suggested. No daughter should have to feel like she has something to hide from her parents, because that's already a clear indication that there is a lack of trust somewhere among the household. |
| Amanda | 11/07/08 | 5:25am | The reason I say no is due to the horror stories about what used to happen to unwed mothers. Believe me..things..horrible things happened to them, often their babies killed right in front of them. No, I don't want a girl who may have maniacs for parents to go through that and worse. I see it this way..if you are a good parent then your child is going to come to you with this. If you aren't...then the law protects them from what may happen to them or their babies. We all know from endless news stories how monstrous some parents have been found to be. |
| Ed | 11/07/08 | 4:48am | Sorry I forgot to say yes parents should be notified. What if something happened!!! |
| Ed | 11/07/08 | 4:27am | Being a Dad, my first reaction would be if some guy got one of my daughters pregnant is to hunt the asshole down and chop it off. My two daughters and I are very open with each other. We have been this way since they were very young. They know they can come to me for anything. We have a good father daughter relationship. They come to me when they date new guys, they ask my opinions and of course I always get to meet the guys. My daughters ages are 17 and 22. They both have good heads on their shoulders and the guys they go out with are pretty level headed. If one of my daughters came to me with this problem. We would work it out. I would not yell or lock them up for the rest of their lives. They know I love them and will support them and will always be there for them. Now the guy that did that to one of them would be missing an important body part. But that is what fathers feel when something like that happens. they want to protect their babies. Be open with your kids be there when they need you. Don't critize, but listen to them and they will know they can always come to you for anything. Have a Nice Day! |
| Mady | 11/07/08 | 1:41am | Let me get this straight... a 13 or 14 year old walks into a clinic to get an abortion behind her parents back, and some of you think that's acceptable? A minor cannot legally buy cigarettes or get cosmetic surgery without a parent's consent, yet you believe parental consent for an abortion is not necessary? This is outrageous. Minors can't view R rated films, or get aspirin in school without parental involvement, yet a major and risky operation that cuts out a living fetus from a child's uterus and affects them psychologically for life... that's up to a child to decide without their parents? If some doctor performed an abortion on my child without first trying to contact me, I swear I would sue the hell out of that doctor and clinic. Unbelievable. |
| Amanda | 11/06/08 | 8:32pm | Well..there is a reason she feels she can't go to her parents to begin with...I am not wild about the idea, but I have to say no because of repercussion that a law like that cannot possibly take into account.I do however suggest comprehensive counciling, or perhaps if she prefers spiritual counciling as a part of the deal. |
| Milkshake | 11/06/08 | 6:34pm | I am a parent and a good parent. In this particular case, I would try to be as understanding as possible and sensitive to my son/daughters needs. However, some parents are not as understanding and sensitive; maybe making the problem worse. Therefore, I voted no, but do feel an adult should be present with the minor and there should be mandatory free counceling. |
| Ginny | 11/06/08 | 6:01pm | They "should" be able to go to their parents to help with a decision as tough as teen pregnancy. But it just isn't realistic. There is a short time frame and young people, if they have to go through their parents, tend to put things off until there are no more options. |
| Padded Cell | 11/06/08 | 5:04pm | A highly charged topic in the emotions department. Many "open minded" men will give u a lot of good and sound ideas in this regards until they become fathers of teenage daughters themselves one day! ha ha ;) |
