The 800+ billion dollar bailout plan is a good thing for America

Total Voters: 458 Yes 83% No 83% Undecided 83% Man 04/06/09 5:11am Why does every beautiful woman I meet, want to make sweet love to me? And they just keep coming back for more. I guess I make them feel really cozy and nice inside. Wallander 10/15/08 10:32pm Wow thanks a lot Milks! I reaespecially liked the last 2 links you gave, because they both had NEW things that i had not previously known about, and they were also really neat websites, in terms of their interactive designs. I'm really glad i asked you guys! Thanks. :-))) Milkshake 10/15/08 4:46pm Here are a few that I know, Wallander: NewAgeStore.com, voiceoftheangels.com, and 7thunders.com. Hope you like these. Wallander 10/15/08 1:35pm I really appreciate the link Bam Bam:-)))) It's really neat, and it is very different than the stuff i normally use. Thanks. :-))) Bam Bam 10/15/08 12:23pm Wallender when I used to read I read the Mah Jongg. It's eerily accurate, here's a site that does free readings on Mah Jongg. It's fun too! http://www.e-tarocchi.com/mahjong/index.php Wallander 10/15/08 9:21am Milkshake & everyone else in here....if anyone of you ppl happen to have a link or two, to a good site, or anything else that has to do with Tarot, Astrology, iChing, etc....i'd be very happy if you could share it with me?!! I'm especially looking for a good site for Tarots. I know a few myself....like this one[mysticgames.com], iFate & facade.com, but i'd like to try somewhere else for a change. Ofcoarse if you dont know any other sites, then thats ok! : ) Milkshake 10/15/08 8:02am Wallander, if this big earthquake occurs and I'm still around, I will not only give you his email address but his FREAKIN phone number!!! Believe it or not, I felt a big thump early this morning. Maybe it was in my mind though since I am paranoid. Anyway, I am praying if one occurs, it won't be that bad. Knightmare3000 10/15/08 7:30am To me it is deja vu all over again like the Great Depression of 1929. the stock marekt crashes, but the economy faces its worse challenges over the next 24 months ( like 1931-1932). the stock market will stabilize at about a DJIA of 9000 to 9500. but that is still about 40% lower than what it was last year ( DJIA of 14,000). so there will be job layoffs, poor retail sales this Holiday season,and further cut backs. no matter who gets elected ( McCain or Obama) they will have difficult times the next 24 months. there is just not the tax revenue to do too much of anything. no matter what the bailout did. houses will still be foreclosed. job layoffs will occur and businesses will fail. it may not correct for 10 years. as the homeless ( house foreclosed crowd) grows, I would not be surprised that "hobo jungles" ( like the 1930's) crop up in large metropolitan areas. people living out of campers , minivans or in public parks. I hear that it is that way now in Los angeles,CA with new homeless people living out of their cars.. it will get worse. just like the 1930's. someone was "asleep at the wheel "with these mortgages and stock market deals. My guess is that Bush will be blamed ( like Herbert Hoover was in the 1930's) and a new candidate like Obama ( similar to Roosevelt (FDR)) will take the election. he will faces his toughest challenges in the first 24 months regardless of the economic bailout package Wallander 10/15/08 6:11am With regards to your friend's predictions about an earthquake Milkshake, the word "landslide" comes to my mind, especially with the date being incidentally close to the election day....i dont know, maybe there's something to it, maybe not? But if an earthuake really DOES occur, and it is incidentally around the time, where your friend has predicted, then im going to ask you for his webpage or email addr. immediately! ;-D Wallander 10/15/08 5:49am I think i've pretty much got the point that you were refering to a MAJOR event, when you brought up the 4 of Swords card Amanda....and knowing you (from the little i know about you on this site) i think i had a pretty good idea that you wanted to hear something a little bit more dramatic, and appearantly i wasn't dramatic ENOUGH for your taste, eventhough i mentioned the gun-owning "finger-itching" rebels who might resort to something drastic, which will be viewed as confrontational, when Ura-nus[rebels] moves into Aries[battles] in 2012. Amanda 10/15/08 5:48am That prediction has been made by several people already. I read it in other groups I am on. Doesn't surprise me though... Milkshake 10/14/08 7:45pm I was talking to an old friend of mine who is very psychic and is very accurate. I dont really believe this, but I believe something like this can and may happen in the near future, but NOT this damn close! Anyway, he told me that on (and he said a freakin date!) November 12, 2008, which is a month away, there will be a big earthquake about an 8.0 or higher in northern California. I said NO WAY! So I believe with the planetary transits and this Pluto moving into Capricorn it can happen within 4-7yrs. but not one month. And this earthquake he predicted is election time! WOW! Im praying. Amanda 10/14/08 5:58pm Wallander..Sorry to burst your bubble but my decks are NOT LIKE THE RYDER-WAITE decks! I told you that before so please listen to me. So NO it does NOT refer to energy, but dogmatic discipline and restriction... to peace only being gained via adherence to dogma and militaristic styled living. Please understand as a professional reader that I know what they heck I speak of. Rule number one of tarot. Study and know your deck.By no means are all decks alike nor do they represent the same things. You know a version of the tarot, but it is not the only one. Know what it represents..that is how it is designed. My tarot cannot even be loosely related to the books most get on the market to aid in interpretation, because they are not meant to be interpreted in that manner. They serve an entirely different purpose and actually divination is a SECONDARY function, not PRIMARY! So, enough with that..this is the outcome of things. Yes we are going down hill and for anyone to even think that another civil war is not coming about has their heads in the sand. Pat 10/14/08 4:40pm Come back to catch up on some work, but come in here for a few minutes. Wallander, I'm going to check out that link soon. I also like this topic better. Viva le Shag!, If you know there are kids in here, then why did you type in something vulgar? Mel, I completely agree. That is exactly what is going on and our world is heading straight on to a one-world order(dominance). It's sad, but good you see it, too. Good-night. Mel 10/14/08 3:33pm Can nobody see what is happening a few certain people and families have engineered this crisis in order to centralise banks and thus control the worlds finances - next elecrtonic money so with it the ability to control people What will happen next will be a war and after the war world domination Milkshake 10/14/08 2:46pm Wallander, I really liked that site. It was pretty interesting. Please let me or anyone else know if you find anymore cool sites! Wallander 10/14/08 2:02pm Appearantly the word "re-tard" is subject for censorship! :p Wallander 10/14/08 1:37pm Well said Milky.:-)))) Maybe i should put my foot down & try to change the mood of this poll, back into something nicer...uhmm..i dont know how though!?:-/ I'm still shell-shocked of that last comment by Viva le shag but thanks to his own OBVIOUS ridiculous-ness & your somewhat humorous attack at him(which i take as an indirect moral support), i can now just ignore these meaningless comments with a greater sense of ease & relief from this point on forward;-) And a direct comment to you Viva le shag, how about if you try one more time to join the discussions, but this time in a much more civilized manner?! You think you can contribute with something thoughtful & positive for a change?? Personally i doubt it, but nevertheless i'd still recommend the latter anytime. Can you handle that or would you rather play the role of the clown in this gathering?! Hey for my sake i would even go as far as saying that you are allowed to joke around, but with a little bit more CLASS & without being offensive to other ppl.... i honestly dont think you're cultivated enough for a BIG task like that though...so maybe it's best that you just stick to the ONLY thing you know best: To have it all your mouth than in your brain, or in your actions you ****! Milkshake 10/14/08 11:44am Hey Viva la shaggy! i think your just jealous cuz you cant get laid. if you have nothing nice to say to someone, then keep your rude, stupid, immature comments to yourself! take your shaggy, skanky, self and leave. Wallander 10/14/08 10:34am I TRUELY hate rude remarks, & i find them revolting & infuriating! i'm sorry Viva le Crap but it seems you just made it into my "as$hole list". Viva le shag! 10/14/08 10:05am Hey Wallander the only thing I have understood from your posts so far is that you badly need to get laid. Either that or your basically in dire need of some psychiatric therapy man. And yes there are also youngsters reading these sites. ;) Wallander 10/14/08 9:14am Has anyone tried the link that i gave for Aztec Astrology[http://www.mayanmajix.com/TZOLKIN/DT/DT.html]. I'd like to ask about what you think specifically about the discriptions of your own birthday, and what you also think of the next day after your birthday. I'm ONLY asking this question because im trying to find out something about MY OWN birthday which i dont understand..anyways, if you do, then i'd be happy to hear from anyone who can answer the aforementioned 2 questions that i asked. Thanks. : ) Milkshake 10/14/08 9:11am Just in case if this helps, I saw a great astrologer a few years ago and she told me the United States is the sign of Aquarius. I recall Texas is the sign of Capricorn and I cannot recall much of anything else about the states or other countries. Does anyone know? Wallander 10/14/08 7:49am There is a brief 'crisis' taking place from March 2011 until Nov.2012, based on the same planets that Librae mentioned(Saturn in Virgo & Urannus in Pisces) moving up into their respectively next houses; Urannus in Aries/Saturn in Libra. Isn't the latter especially obvious that it indicates something about the roles of man/woman...this might even be refered to as the war of the sexes period. In any case, maybe this is a good opportunity for this issue between women&men to finally come to a head during this short period, and thereby deflating the most extreme opinions by either parts once & for all, so that men & women could feel united for the 1st time in a VERY long time. This could explain the tensions you feel in the air at the moment, between women & men!? Maybe the Aztecs were refering to this event at the end of 2012 when they said that it's the "end of times"...maybe the yr 2012= The union of the two sexes, which in essence=God!!!!!????? Btw im just so happy we dont have any youngsters reading these polls, because these things could be understood in a completely different way by the innocent-minded youth...im glad we can just say anything here, without being accountable for, if they turn out to be right or wrong!! : ) Pat 10/14/08 6:12am Amanda, I'm interested. I know there is a civil war coming, also. I wish I was finished with my chart. It has been awhile, like I said, I had forgotten how much was involved in doing one. Especially for me doing one for the U.S. Yes, keep going with anything else you find. Isn't it a shame that it has to come down to the people in this nation having a battle with it's own government? You could be right about the ten years, I but still believe that is too close the way the years are going so fast. Everything is speeding up. I don't believe the nation will come together yet, as one against the government. We all will have to be fed up and I can't see in 10 years that we all will be fed up. Everyone will have to stand together, then the government would have no choice. Also imagine the deaths, rapes and all the injuries from the blood lust that would take place. We are talking on a huge scale and there are psychos out amongst everyone. Wallander 10/14/08 5:47am I'd like to throw in my 2cents as well Amanda. I think the card that you picked(4 of swords) is almost too good! America is a popularly-known as a "youthful nation", and this refers to the sheer energy of this nation. But as we're moving into PIC from this yr. onwards, we're going to see a different America--a much more regulated & socially-conscience America. This is the general interpertation of the Swords in your card. But also, you see 'night' which is so apt with regards to PIC[which also include the following 'pluto in Aquarius' & thereafter 'pluto in pisces']. The next 60 yrs or so, we are going to see "Pluto in Winter solstice" which is more or less equivolant to the #24 Hexagram in the iChing oracle, which is described on another site as the following: "The winter solstice has always been celebrated in China as the resting time of the year--a custom that survives in the time of rest observed at the new year. In winter the life energy, symbolized by thunder, the Arousing, is still underground. Movement is just at its beginning; therefore it must be strengthened by rest so that it will not be dissipated by being used prematurely. This principle, i.e., of allowing energy that is renewing itself to be reinforced by rest, applies to all similar situations. The return of health after illness, the return of understanding after an estrangement: everything must be treated tenderly and with care at the beginning, so that the return may lead to a flowering." Now, ofcoarse this doesnt go into anything concrete, but im willing to say that this "period of forced rest" is going to be interperted in different way by different ppl, who have different opinion of things. If you are a hardcore conservative, with a lot of pride about the history of the US--especially during & after the WW2--& a person with die-hard patriotic feelings, this is NOT going to be a good period for you, because you will gradually realize that gov't is probably the only good option you have, if you want to survive the financial turbulances because of a "fatigued market". And you may even feel pushed into the corner from all sides, with your back against the wall. And this might result in the US becoming a TIGHT sealed country to the outside world, because the ordinary gun-owning redneck Americans will take the matter into their own hands & begin shooting at ANY 'illegal aliens' at the south border...who knows, maybe they'll even do that to anyone who's already living INSIDE the US, but who is still living as an illegal alien. But on the other hand, this might be good news for you, if you're a mother of 4 newly-born kids who simply needs all the help that she can get from the gov't. Also the same for those ppl who want to study, because there may not be any part-time jobs for them to take. But on a much bigger scale, this could mean that America's public institutions are going to become VERY STRONG during the next 70-80 yrs. because the whole society will be needing some sort of a protection, and ONLY the gov't will be able to do that. So a system change may be inevitable in the US. I also agree with your notion that there is going to be some kind of a civil war in the US....when Urannus moves into the next house(Aries) in 2012, we're going to see some WILD things happening. Urannus, which is the planet of the rebellions, is going to enter Aries, which CLEARLY stands for wars, fighting, struggles & leadership. At the same time Neptune is going to move into her own sign Pisces, which might give a clue to what the gov't will be trying to do.....it would protect all those ppl who need to be helped, and if there are any civil wars by then, the gov't will take a neutral & passive stance, and will pledge to ONLY help those ppl who need its help. So yes, i find your card very fitting Amanda.;-) If i suddenly find more clues to what this card could indicate about the future(of America), i will definitely post them here. Amanda 10/14/08 4:23am In case anyone is interested I did a tarot reading for the USA almost a week ago regarding this situation we are now in. Not good folks. The outcome is the four of swords. Now understand I don't read the more traditional decks, there are constructed for ceremonial majick, so they don't read like most decks. The reason that the four is bad and what got my attention was the message ' tension is relaxed through the adherence to dogma and militaristic discipline.' Anytime I have encountered this card the outcome is basically there is only peace if you just sit back and don't rock the boat. I have personally felt another civil war coming...I think it is on it's way. Not too soon, but definitely in our live times, perhaps even within the next ten years or so. Wallander 10/14/08 3:05am I wasn't aware that it was Nietszche who had said those words Persipone. Nontheless i agree with it completely, and it says pretty much what i've been trying to say, that it is about time that our society(-ies) learned to function optimally without the disturbances of the instabilities in the market. Ofcoarse the Stock Market has a VERY important function, which basically is to keep improving the quality of the goods that are flowing back & forth in the society, & in every individual's life. But this process STILL needs to be as NATURAL as possible, and NOT the way it's been the last 14-15 yrs. where even things as abstract as "thoughts" & "ideas" became commodities. That is incidentally very close to the imagery that i painted in one of my previous posts, regarding "building castles in mid air". But i liked your last comment even more, and im tempted to believe that you're into diving, am i not right?;-) That is a cool hobby. And Librae im glad you brought up that astrological aspect (saturn in virgo-[opposite]-urannus in pisces). And isnt this exactly what we're seeing right now with regards to the Market....a tight system being challenged by a 'soft' & abstract problem.....even with regards to the American election, we're seeing a VERY stiff, unflexable, & traditional McCain(who is a Virgo btw) standing in opposition to a much more flexible (soft movements) & "revolutionary" Obama? I'm pretty sure this aspect is manifesting itself in MANY different places around the globe right now, both collectively & individually. Wallander 10/13/08 12:42pm Saturn in Virgo-[contra]-Ura-nus in Pisces........... Saturn in Virgo: "With Saturn in Virgo your test is the lesson of discrimination: what's important, and what’s not. Don't obsess or worry over details and inconsequentials, be aware of nagging, and watch your criticism, especially of co-workers. If Saturn is afflicted, you may have to guard against a generally irritable disposition. Your mind is very orderly and analytical, but it would help to develop your sense of humor and to not take life so seriously. Difficulties in assimilating life's experiences can lead to nerve problems. This sign placement denotes good researchers, scientists, accountants, bookkeepers, or any profession with a great deal of detail. Saturn returns to each sign once every 29 or 30 years for about a three-year stay. Saturn was in Virgo from 8/1919 to 10/1921, from 9/1948 to 8/1951, from 7/1978 to 9/1980, and from 8/2007 to 10/2009." .......................... Ura-nus in Pisces: "In the last 200 years Ur**** was in Pisces from April 1919 through March 1927, and now presently from March 2003 through March 2011. If you were born with Ur**** in Pisces, you have an intuitive wisdom and are able to let go of old habits easily. You prefer helping and serving people to acquiring money or power for personal gain. You can be very sensitive to others, and are prone to strain your nerves by too much work. B vitamins are helpful in this regard. If your Ur**** is angular or well aspected, you're a visionary of some type, with insights into psychology, religion, the occult, music or drama. If your Ur**** is heavily afflicted, you may tend to escape through alcohol or drugs. Ur**** returns to each sign once every 84 years." Pat 10/13/08 11:14am Librae, most people don't want to believe that a one-world government is on the way. The truth is it is now in the workings and even though it sounds science fiction, it is the truth. There will be two classes of people: the wealthy and the poor. I have an old newspaper clipping from back in the 1970's that I kept. I'll bring it to work when I can find it some weekend and type in exactly what it reads(it is back in my closet packed in one of my boxes of stuff I just keep through the years to see when something plays out. It doesn't sound good at all to the people that will finally start standing up to our government. This is more than the tiny bit that people do now. Librae 10/13/08 10:02am I'm a strong believer in destiny as I follow Advaita (or non-duality). In my book everything is happening exactly the way it happens and there is no choice in the matter at any level. Right now Saturn and Ur**** are in opposition and all hell is breaking loose, as structures are being rapidly transformed and rebuilt world wide. There is probably going to be a new world order set in place and as Ur**** transits are unpredictable, this new world order will be something totally different and most probably completely unexpected. It is exact around election time, so keep watching the news, put your seat in the upright position and buckle your seatbelt because Kansas is goin' bye-bye! (Stole that line from Cypher in "The Matrix". Pat 10/13/08 7:03am Wallander, what you said on 10-10 at 6:11 p.m., I totally agree with, Persipone, am I right or wrong, because it sounds like you are saying we are headed for another Great Depression? If that is what you saying, then I agree it is headed that way unless everyone holds GREAT FAITH that everything will turn around for everyone and we get the breaks that the wealthy get.(which is another thing that is as* backwards). If we fall, many nations will fall right behind us. Amanda, that's right. That's why they won't show interviews with many people in her state did not like her at all. As usual, it was shown one time. We don't have much of a choice as far as who will be president and v.p. Only two sets to vote for. A few helped me make a decision on voting, BUT as soon as I saw palin that did it for sure. She is a hard person, she loves violence and takes great pleasue in death. I don't understand why she is allowed to hunt down animals that are on the extinction list. Anyone else would be in big trouble and face a long jail term. No one should be above the law, but the crooked politicians always place themsevles above the law. Amanda 10/12/08 4:28pm I still feel all of this is good ol Karma..for all the greed and all the killing etc. Sorry, but I have never met one soul that has ever truly gotten away with one thing...not one. One way or the other, they have had to pay. Oh sure perhaps they broke the law and never went to jail, but ever notice down the road a bit how screwed up their lives become?? See that is the thing. No one is willing to actually return to more spiritual principles..and that too is the demise of this world as we know it. I do not mean religious principles, those have killed enough thank you very much. But truly spiritual principles. This is what you get. At this point it doesn't matter what they do, until they turn everything in their actions around and start focusing on taking care of what is important, people..this is all going down the tubes. Persipone 10/12/08 2:19pm I do not buy the philosophy that we inherit our forefathers' sins. That is at the heart of so many wars that last way beyond the memories of the people fighting in them. (e.g.: Northern Ireland for a lot of the 20th century, eastern Europe in the 1990s.) Besides, we are too busy creating our own sins now to be bothered with those of yesterday. (Did you know that many of the Wall Street regulations are based on preventing the problems that happened during the crash of 1929? This month's crash is like the machine gun to WWI soldiers.) Today is all that there is and to steal a quote from Wallander's favorite philosopher, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Good swimmers will find the thermoclines in the deep end of the gene pool.... Wallander 10/12/08 6:36am Yes exactly Amanda. We are somehow led to believe that our very existance is dependant on what is going on in the SM. And YES we know it is serious, but the point is that nothing good ever comes out of panicking, and the more we panick in this instant, the more complicated the situation may become for ourselves in the future. And having some sort of moral superiority over the situation will definitely be of great help. I dont believe i have a socialist bone in my body, but i honestly feel that it is VERY WRONG that the whole existence of the society is based on the market. This experience if anything, should teach us that the stock market is a rather unstable place, for better or worse, and that there needs to be some sorts of guarantees that will enable the society to function normally without being constantly shaken up by these eratic & unpredictable events in the market. Amanda 10/11/08 5:27pm See thats the issue..there has not been anything even resembling morality involved. I have never trusted Palin from day one..and I don't trust her now. Truth be told I don't trust Obama either..but I distrust him less then McCain and Pain. Now..is politics and finances mixed..does the bail out reflect our politicians ideals..yes they do. There were laws against making loans to people who cannot afford them and those were suspended in favor of making the loans. Are the people receiving the loans responsible? Not really..I mean if someone told you that you qualified for this house, and this is what you would have to pay and you looked at the payment and saw you could do it then why wouldn't you? If they are responsible for anything it is blindly trusting someone that they should not have trusted...but how were they to know? See the greed is all throughout our society..and always has been. If it'll make a dollar then make it. First steal from the Natives and commit a near genocide, next, import slaves and use them..and we can buy, sell and trade too! Finally that is illegal so who do you exploit next? Why your citizens. See, it is different people but essentially the same process over and over again. Will the bail out work..not too sure. Right now it could go either way. But, to the positive..at least the price of gas has gojne down by 40 cents here..remarkable. Wallander 10/11/08 1:22pm This is what Frederich Nietszche thinks of the Stock Market...from Thus Spake Zarathustra: "Full of clattering buffoons is the market-place,- and the people glory in their great men! These are for them the masters of the hour. But the hour presseth them; so they press thee. And also from thee they want Yea or Nay. Alas! thou wouldst set thy chair betwixt For and Against? On account of those absolute and impatient ones, be not jealous, thou lover of truth! Never yet did truth cling to the arm of an absolute one. On account of those abrupt ones, return into thy security: only in the market-place is one assailed by Yea? or Nay? Slow is the experience of all deep fountains: long have they to wait until they know what hath fallen into their depths."......... Anyways i love how he calls the market a place only for 'yes' or 'no'.....a place for Absolutists, and a poisonous place for Relativists! I know, at the end of the day it's just nothing but a few fancy words that are basically useless....but atleast it gives you some kind of a moral oversight. : ) Wallander 10/11/08 11:00am Well Amanda, i guess thats what you get when you put an overambitious country gal['country' in this case refers more to being an out-of-city person] who used all her youth & early 20's, to focus solely on making money...at times perhaps, quick money. At some point or another your whole decision- & policy-making abilities will be shaped by all those HECTIC hrs. of just running after the "Benjamins"! Btw i dont mean to sound like some hardcore communist when i criticize Sarah Palin's credentials like that. I'm ONLY trying to point out the "Baracuda-ness" of that lovely young lady!;-) And Persipone, i totally agree with you sir, this is a great opportunity for ppl to be more creative-minded & STRONG during the next few yrs. . Hey, i even agree with Amanda's earlier comment, that perhaps self-limitation is sometimes actually a GOOD thing. This whole market mess started in the first place because appearantly some ppl believed they could build castles in MID AIR, with no structural-support whatsoever beneath it. Mel 10/11/08 10:26am Awake China own the USA Claire 10/11/08 9:57am Ho about a new poll? Something along the lines of: What will be the impact of the Palin report? Will it effect your vote? Persipone 10/11/08 9:25am I didn't realize that this string about about the election. I thought it was about what the US should do in the face of what is going on with the global economy.... I guess I was mistaken. Amanda 10/11/08 2:39am Gee Wallander..apparently you have not kept up with the news. Palin was found guilty of abuse of power just yesterday for firing someone who basically had the audacity to stand up to her..we won't get into the who tax scope she and her hubby are still under..let me guess Obama is behind that!! Point being no one ever sees the truth. All of them are corrupt and none of them give a damn about you personally. You think Palin is a good choice, even after4 she has been found guilty of abusing her position..pray tell exactly what do you think she would do if she got the vice presidency..Thing is America started this long ago as I have asaid and most people think there is a quick fix, as oin over the next twenty odd year quick fix. Until the mentality of this country and it's people change, and drastically, we are all going down with the ship/ Sorry, but we put it out there. Persipone 10/10/08 9:31pm The spelling of my name is intentional. I can appreciate your comments about Iceland...and Britain. I live in the US now, but I have lived many years in Britain. I think that our world is about to get smaller. Britain would be remiss if she didn't do what she had to do to protect her interests. All countries have a responsibility for doing this. I think that you probably can expect more of this kind of thing, unfortunately. Now is a good time to develop a thick business skin - and not to expect anyone to do anything that goes against self preservation. We will all be in this financial soup together for a while. We just need to stay cool as much as possible and avoid patriotism. Go deep within ourselves and find opportunities there for a brighter future. I am proud to be an American and I love my country - but I do not think that we are the ONLY "Best Country in the World." Wallander 10/10/08 9:04pm Very interesting read Persipone(btw isn't your nick supposed to be 'Persiphone' instead? Just thinking out loud). I found your THOROUGH explanation of the whole market situation quite helpful. So thanks. You might find this piece of news interesting. Yesterday the Brittish gov't did something that was quite unimaginable & unthinkable until yesterday. They decided VERY suddenly to use an anti-terror law in order to freeze all of the Icelandic assets, because Iceland is so SEVERELY hit by the Stock Market's melt down, and UK has had so much investments in the Icelandic businesses over the last 8-10 yrs.! I believe it was well over 30 Billion Pounds Sterling worth of investments. The Icelandic market was one of the fastest growing markets in all of Europe the last decade or so, and they themselves were turning into MAJOR investors in other big corporate businesses outside of Iceland(mostly in Europe). You should have seen the Icelandic president's reaction in a statement he made during a press conference yesterday. The man sounded so completely shaken up over this sudden "not-at-all friendly" act by the Brittish gov't. And on the other hand there was another interview, revealing a VERY shrewd & cold-hearted Gordon Brown. Do you reckon this is what we can expect to see the gov'ts do to other countries, in the near future? It is a pretty scary thought! :-/ Persipone 10/10/08 6:25pm This situation is so much bigger than the illegals, jobs in Mexico and subprime issues in the US and this isn't going to settle out until after the Credit Default Swap payoff auctions on Oct 23. Only then will everyone know just how exposed everyone else is. Many banks will fail no matter what the government does. But many will also survive and once shown to be sound their business will resume. What is scary to me about this is the way governments are taking over ownership of private sector financial institutions and private industry. Just think of the banks being run like the IRS or the Post Office - and by the very same people with political mandates. While it would hurt, it would be better to just let many of these banks fail and be replaced with new ones. All this life support is going to do is lead to perpetually sick banks run by politicians for political purposes. The $45.6 trillion Credit Default Swap Crash vs. the $700 bil Sub Prime Crash. All of this because 5% of U.S. mortgages are defaulting? This 5% isn’t that big a number compared to the world financial markets. After all, the other 95% are still paying and yielding a cash flow. So if sub primes didn’t cause this what is going on? What is going on is an international Credit Default Swap (CDS) caused crash. A CDS is a form of insurance on loans that pays off if the loan defaults. CDS are totally unregulated and un-monitored by any government agency. CDS are not called insurance because insurance is regulated. If it was called insurance, and regulated, the issuers of the policies would be required to have assets enough to cover any claims. But it isn’t insurance. And it turns out the issuers of CDS never had the assets to cover any claims – even a small claim like the sub prime mortgage defaults. If they had paid off the sub prime defaults everyone would have their money and there would be no bailout. The banks and financial institutions that issued unregulated CDS made billions collecting the premiums (but they are not called premiums because it isn’t insurance). But when the sub prime backed instruments started to default they couldn’t pay off because they had no assets to pay off with. AIG is one example. And everyone noticed and started to worry. The real problem is that CDS were not sold to cover just mortgages loans. They were sold to cover almost every kind of lending instrument. Obviously, a bond that is insured against defaulting is more valuable and higher rated than one that is not insured. So once the CDS began defaulting on the subprime market it became obvious they were worthless insurance on everything else they insured, which is just about everything else out there. So the value of every bond, hedge fund and other investment instrument dropped on the books of every institution holding them. And they dropped fairly sharply. And then there are the CDS themselves. They were on the books as an income producing investment instrument just like a bond from a legitimate insurance company. Now they are virtually worthless. How much were they worth before the truth about them was revealed? $42.6 TRILLION. For perspective, this is equal to the entire household wealth of the U.S.; the U.S. stock market is capitalized at $18.5 trillion. So what really has happened is that the global financial markets have just taken a $42.6 trillion dollar loss of assets. Our recent bailout is only $700 billion, a tiny fraction of the outstanding CDS and not enough to make a tiny tiny dent in the debt the financial institutions are now holding. So what did our elected officials just do? They bailed out their campaign donors and gave them a chance to cash in their chips and leave the game with some cash in their pockets. The sub prime defaults are just a minor diversion that takes your eyes off what has really happened. Huge companies, here and abroad, (CDS started in Europe) committed a fancy complicated form of fraud. They sold insurance that wasn’t really insurance, collected billions in “premiums” that pumped up their books and made billions for their executives and brokers. They often issued a CDS to a buyer to pump up the price of a bond or financial instrument they were selling and thus increased their profits two ways. If a real regulated insurance company had done this the executives would all be indicted, prosecuted and put in jail for a long time. It was fraud and I hope our government will go after these weasels and put them in jail. But I doubt that will happen. The problem right now is that no one knows who is holding what or even how to begin to value holdings. The value of holdings of all kinds have clearly dropped. But by how much? In the sub prime mortgage market, for example, the houses are still out there and clearly they have some considerable value. But how much? The same holds across all the markets. The tangible assets securing most of the loans are still out there. But what are they worth now? We are about to see a huge 100 year shake out on the value of everything and everyone is going to take a hit. The more leveraged any business or individual is the more they are going to devalue. And that is another new aspect of this crash. Super low interest rates made borrowing possible – smart – at rates that would have been unthinkable 20 years ago. 20 years ago being leveraged at a 5 to 1 rate was the normal limit. Today 30 to 1 is normal. 4% interest rates simply could not be ignored and go unused. Hedge funds with 4% interest rates made extreme leveraging even more extreme for large investors and funds. It turns out some hedge funds had 100 to 1 leveraging. (Hedge funds are another unregulated market) So our entire economy, the businesses, the banks, individuals are credit extended like never before in history. So they are all going to be devalued like never before. This is going to be the perfect financial storm. And it isn’t going to end anytime soon. A lot of companies are going to fail – unavoidably. There is going to be a lot of unemployment. A lot of retirement funds are going to fail – including government backed retirement funds like state funds. And the U.S. government cannot bail them all out. But it will try at first. And the government will have unemployment claims and welfare claims like never before. And all this will cause another problem that will cause more pain. Inflation. Inflation like we haven’t seen in decades. Because the only way the government will have to pay off its debts – and they are going to be huge, even compared to our present huge debt – is to print money. Lots of money. We are going to see something unthinkable in the past. High unemployment, bankruptcies, banks closing and a very slow economy, BUT with high inflation because every government in the world is going to print money to try and bail things out. What to do? Getting out of debt would be a good idea. Cash is good – but vulnerable to inflation. Gold is better. Start minimizing your expenses in every way possible. If you are about to retire don’t. Keep the job if the job is still there. If your retirement fund doesn’t go bust, inflation will devalue the retirement payments. Things will settle out. The economy will restart. New companies will be started to replace the ones who go under. The sun will come out again. But not for a long time. Wallander 10/10/08 6:11pm Somebody mentioned in here earlier something along the lines that the very essence & very being of the US president becomes the SPIRIT of the nation itself. I'm still trying to remember who exactly said that?**wink-wink-hint-hint**;-D...But seriously, if you think about it, a presidency under McCain is going to mean, a lot of reckless fun, supressed pain, suffering & anger for a greater good somewhere in a distant future, while Obama's presence in the Office would mean, being open to new & fun challenges, youthfulness, being easy-going, plus better relationship-bondings among families & family members. Obama may not be as result-minded as McCain, but that is EXACTLY the point. It is no longer as relevant & as urgent as before, but what is more important is to stay in balance & harmony & stability, and let the results come gradually on their own, without the need to always want to push & push aimlessly into the dark. Amanda 10/10/08 4:37pm I look at it this way..it's Karma..plain and simple. Do you owe people..why sure you do. You just think you don't and thats fine. I am not here to change anyones minds. I could care less if you feel that you might have an obligation or not..just proves my point really. When you guys are screaming about how bad this is and how bad that is just remember..your forefathers could have been decent people and they were not. They could have learned another path and they didn't. Even Fredrick Douglas came along and warned of what the eventual outcome would be for all of this..and of course no one listened..and no one is listening now. That is to be expected. What I think is so funny is how the majority is so ready to put their faith and belief in a man or group of men and women...thinking they are going to 'do the right thing' when the history shows indeed..they will not because like yourself they don't really feel they owe you a thing..think about it. Tammi 10/10/08 4:07pm Its a big scam! There is no govermet for the people. It was all set up to ripe us off. Want real answers and the truth ???? focuse on BlackWater! Thats where your money is going and your new govermet! Wallander 10/10/08 3:40pm Hey you may be right. Who knows!? All i know is that the last 8 yrs we've been witnessing one major screw-up after another, and we are left to ourselves to find out the truth because nobody from the administration is willing to tell us anything at all, as to why we are dealing with the kinds of COMPLEX problems we've been dealing with all this time...nonstop!? And incidentally all the things you just mentioned about Obama, happens to match John McCain even more!(LOL) Btw im not from the States, which im sure is SWEET music to your ears....isn't it?! ;-) Fyi i'm from Norway. But i do appreciate the discussion we're having. :-) Ed 10/10/08 2:16pm I would not vote for Obama because of his associations and his socialist ideals. The man nevers answers the questions put to him. He goes around and around the issues just like a used cars salesman. He is a shady character. I have been digging around to find out about him and I don't like what I have found. I will not go into it with you because everyone gets so crazy about this ass. You have made up your mind and it is not use trying to get you to realize that voting for him is a mistake. :) Wallander 10/10/08 2:12pm Principally i agree with everything you said Pat. But there is ALWAYS an inherent risk in accumulating power by blind ruthless methods which took place for many yrs., in the history of US & Europe. If you ask yourself the simple question why we are living in the age of fear & terror today, the answer lies in the things that occured in the past which are STILL shaping our way of life & politics today. You know, one thing that was very characteristic of the Victorian Era was the way a modern civilization looked at outside elements from other cultures, & percieved them as "wild savages". And despite the fact that this is something that occured many yrs ago in history, we are still struggling with the same said FEAR of the unknown here in 2008...EVEN IF it is no longer an "outside element" but instead live among us. All the stress, fear & panic of the modern age caused by a very simple thing: Jealousy! I mean, there is absolutely nothing wrong if you're seeking power(as an individual, or collectively) but at some point if you begin to resort to VERY questionable methods in order to reach this position of power, you will never be able to get rid of your FEAR again...& infact it will only worsen as time goes on, and the greed becomes more& more appauling. In essence, this fear is related to our own guilt-stricken past, which we now have inherrited, and unless we allow ourselves to take a few steps backwards once in a while, in order to reach the exact point where we began stepping over that invisible boundry, we'll never be able to heal our society. We will be doomed to make the same mistakes over & over again....imho. ;-) Pat 10/10/08 1:09pm Your welcome, Ed. To anyone else, there is no way possible in our lifetimes to make up for past mistakes of the wealthy and some middle class that owned slaves. There is too much bitterness that won't go away. Too much hate from both sides and still too much prejudice. Unless this seed pays for the crimes of the last seed. We could never make up to the Native Americans, because congress, the senate and all presidents still keep breaking the treaties and stick it to them to this very day. The reservations said NO to highways and interstates being built through their lands and the government allowed it to happen anyway. Many people travelling through their land desecrate spiritual places and litter their land. The Black Hills was A VERY SPIRITUAL place, the government took it and later put four white men on it. All forms of media won't allow anyone to forget the past and start fresh and peaceful for a new day and future. Another proverb, this time from Buddha:"THREE THINGS CANNOT BE HIDDEN LONG: THE SUN, THE MOON, AND THE TRUTH." Maybe the planet earth(our mother) will just get tired of getting sick from all her disobedient children and BLOW UP!!! Then we all would never have to live with the parasites(humans) that are slowly killing her and all livings on and in her. Wallander 10/10/08 12:38pm The issue is NOT about some kind of a money settlement between the state & those whose ancestors were slaves, Native American, or what not! The issue has more to do with the way many "white folks" feel today in our time, when they see a black man aiming for a Presidential job. It has to do more with feelings of FEAR, total resentments, jealousy, intrigue & defeat towards the member(s) of another race, for not being "humble enough, NOT to want to run for the President". And btw, if you say you do not oppose Obama for his race but "for his party", then i can tell you that i doubt strongly Obama would have reached this far into the Presidential race, had he been a Republican candidate. Don't you? I mean it is so obvious, almost written in the sky with great neon colors, that the Republcans could NEVER produce a black candidate, who is capable of winning a Presidential election. Not in this century anyways! But going back to what i said before, as long as those feelings of suspicion, cynicism & resentment still exist in the hearts of the "Whites", it indicates to me that America is STILL living with the same outdated, outworn values of her past. Not to mention the fact that while the whole world has been thrown into a turbulent financial sh*t-house, you are still clinging on this whole idea that the gov't has let you down. What a curious perception of things. It sure sounds like you've thought this whole situation thru. ;-) Ed 10/10/08 11:05am Hey Wallander, sorry man I do not agree with you. We do not owe the past or slaves anything it was in the past. The people who are now trying to benefit from slavery who were not even there are totally nuts. It is just a way for people to get another free hand out. What's done is done and again in the past. Pat thanks for the support. You and I both know that whoever gets into office will not do much except screw us even more. I think the whole government body needs a colon cleansing so to speak. :) Wallander 10/10/08 10:26am It's still a puzzle to myself, that after more than 10 yrs of internet experience, i STILL have a tough time when totally ba-nal misunderstandings suddenly become something of a vicious occurence for everyone.(i have to type "ba-nal" like that because if i dont, it gets automatically censured) I dare even say that on rare occasions, they could actually have traumatizing effects on ppl! This has happend to me A LOT on the internet, and i STILL havent gotten used to it. Maybe because in a couple of these instances, the thing that caused the misunderstanding between me & another individual, suddenly took on its own life...and eventually it led us into some really INSANE paths, that were virtually impossible to stop for either parties!! This is why im now a lot more alert about these misunderstandings, and i raise the flag a lot quicker than before. Better to be wrong in your apology, than to be wrong in your vicious suspicions & accusations of another individual on the other side. And better to be a little bit more careful than you'd normally be, as opposed to being "all loose" & without any self-restraint. But fortunately Milkshake clarified the misunderstanding in her last comment, and therefore i'm not thinking about it another second. Regarding your last comment Amanda, this Kingsley fellow sounds like someone who could be a good role model for a lot of ppl in our time. And NO, i totally disagree with Ed's comment that the "past is the past", because unless we somehow make some kind of a reconciliation with our past, and somehow mend the damages that were caused by our own ancestors, the past WILL eventually catch up with us! And the more we try to escape this collective guilt, the burden will just become bigger & bigger in the end. However i do agree, that when you move to a new country, you simply can NOT expect to be treated with dignity & equality, if you still haven't learnt the official language of the country you now reside in. It is BEYOND being just irresponsible, and it is ONLY fair that the issue is questioned by other ppl. But as of right now, the scale of justice--seen thru the eyes of history-- is STILL completely tipped to one side, and it needs to be brought gradually back to being balanced, otherwise it will become the very demise of the US somewhere down the road...in the near future. And the irony is that, i dont even believe that this outcome is something that EVEN those who harbour hostile feelings towards America, would like to see! So YES, we all know that America has A LOT to pay back for past errors, but it must NOT fall like the Roman Empire did eventually(or any other empire for that sake). Pat 10/10/08 9:54am Ed, I have to agree with what you said, but what can be done about it? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! I understand families rushing to get in, because Mexico is a bad third-world country. Their government is worse than ours, as impossible as that sounds. But hundreds and hundreds of drug runners cross over our boarders everyday and that is sickening and not coincidental that our government just lets them crossover. Remember the two guards that are locked up just because they were doing what they were told to do? They tried to stop a really bad drug runner that works for a huge drug lord. I find something as*backwards about that concerning our government. Pat 10/10/08 8:04am Wallender, I feel we all are "ghost friends", even if we all really don't know anything about each other, except for what we put in here. I know some of us irritate others that want to stay with tha poll. We are truly sorry. Our comments are our comments, even when we disagree. I love it especially when we say we agree to disagree. Amanda, I am so happy that you are on board now about our Mother Earth and the future of the kids and the cruelty that (as usual) was done in the name of God. Which I know the Great Spirit is not like that. We were given wills to decide our fate in life and what we do right or wrong. Blessed Be. Ed 10/10/08 7:56am I agree with Debbie that people who cross our boarders come here to work, live, have babies and expect to be treated as American citizens should be shipped back, they came here illegally and the legal Americans including yourself Amanda are paying for them though taxes, healthcare, their crimes etc. That is a heavy burden for us and we should not have to put up with it. They want to come here fine, but do it LEGALLY and speak our language. ENGLISH!! Liberals think it is wonderful to let these people in but they don't realize that most of the money they make they send it back to Mexico. duh!!!! They can't even spend our US dollars here to help our economy. All this talk about slavery is in the past......Who cares! We are not talking about slavery, but the rape of America by illegal aliens and how they are a burden to America because they are here illegally. They know exactly how to screw the system which we in turn have to foot the bill. Enough! Ship them back along with the kids, the drugs they bring across the boarder, and the criminals that slimmed their way across the boarder. Most Americans feel the way I do, and hopefully the next administration will deal with it. I doubt it though, neither candidate has the balls to stand up to this problem. Amanda 10/10/08 7:26am Agreed Bam Bam. In this country it is might makes right. We do these things because we can, not because they are right. Now, we get to see just how it feels and we get to pay for it. These things in our lives will never change until we as a a people become less material and more spiritual..spiritual enough to live and let live and honor others. Bam Bam 10/10/08 7:05am Sad is an understatement. Amanda 10/10/08 5:22am Another thing about the freeing of slaves in this country is this; people wanted to simply ship them back home after they could no longer use them. It seems this attitude pervades our citizens..if we cannot use you, if you will not give us what we feel you owe, then we have no use for you at all. sad when you really look at it. Amanda 10/10/08 3:23am Thank you.This was actually in response to someone who wants to send Mexicans and illegals back to their home soil and these are my thoughts on it. It began with the Native Americans, then you have to look at the slavery days. It is interesting to note that colonial America's attitude toward slavery was vastly different from that of Spain. Let me explain. I was conducting a paranormal investigation of the Kingsley plantation in Florida..Jacksonville to be exact. As a result you have to do some historical research. Well this place was first a plantation during the Spanish occupation and ownership of Florida.What that means is that the laws regarding slaves were vastly different. Not that slavery is every acceptable, but the thinking and laws were different. What happened, due to the accessing of Florida to this family is rediculous. See so long as Spain had Florida, Kingsley was in no danger of his wife and kids being enslaved themselves. See, he married a slave, loved her and had children with her. Spain basically encouraged the education of slaves, made provisos where they could buy their freedom and one free, could not be enslaved as well as they had the exact rights of any other free person. Kingsley took care of his slaves, educated them, would not sell a family and made sure their marriages were legally recognized. With the Colonies taking over basically that meant his own wife and children were in very real danger of being enslaved. They had to move to Haiti to avoid this.This attitude still runs through today with people making crass statements of 'shipping back' people who 'don't belong' and viewing them as lesser. Seems like since the very moment we stood on this soil that the Europeans that founded this country feels the need to move other people out of the way for no other reasons than plain old greed. Since the birth of this country..we have no learned a damn thing..not one. We have not learned how to share and honor others that are different and seeing some of the comments I don't think this nations people will. Too much greed here. Too much blood. It is sad to say, very sad to say, that despite all of our advances in science, culture and other areas..in this one particular one most of our citizens and our governments growth is severely ****ed..and we show no signs of even being willing to try and move forward. We want to believe we are better and we aren't. Now we are in someone else's country calling the shots for people. We can't even behave and fairly share, honor our treaties with the Various Native Americans and respect their holy lands. When you factor in those things..what other option but total demise do we have?Greed kills as well as elitism. Our nation will definitely go down the drain and anyone else that hooked into it will go too. It is changeable, if the people here do a drastic 180 in their thinking and concern themselves with fairness and proper treatment. But unless that happens..we are doomed. Wallander 10/09/08 7:15pm I really sympathize with the Americans right now, because it seems quite obvious that if America was a patient being consulted by a shrink, it would right now be in a desperate need for some kind of a reconciliation with her bloody history,& the ghosts of the past. To be honest i'm pretty shocked to hear those BRUTTALLY HONEST words from another American, Amanda! EVEN a person like myself who doesn't live in the States--thereby might be presumed to have the priviledge of speaking freely about whatever that pleased me-- could not bring myself to say the things you just mentioned in your last comment! I mean, i'm pretty sure that i'd be ruining the fun for myself, by bringing up such a grave matter, as the one about the history of the Native Americans' eversince America's discovery. I think i'd be suffering from a heavy guilt-trip for having ruined the fun for other folks who actually happen to live overseas on the American soil. Therefore i have a GREAT deal of admiration & respect for a genuine American who actually dares to admitt to the horrific attrocities endured by the Native Americans, which in all honesty were handed out by the "Whites"! I take my hat off to you for your bravery & sense of justice Amanda. Amanda 10/09/08 5:56pm Debbie what they are doing is not different then what we did to the Natives of this country..actually it is KINDER, what they do. See, they don't come here..acting like our friends only to force us off our lands at gun point, make us live in horrid conditions, kill most of us off through murder and disease, not to mention they don't force us to forget out language by beating the **** out of us, taking our kids from their homes and forcing them into foster care and boarding schools to 'teach them to be civilized'. No my dears I eagerly await what the outcome of all of our dirt is. truly it is nothing more then the Karma of the Americans come home. We deserve every nasty thing that is going to happen because we did it first. You really think with the blood we have on our hands we have any right to complain about legalities..hell our country has never given a damn about the law, unless of course it just happens to fall in their favor. Wallander 10/09/08 4:06pm Michael Lutin is an incredibly talented astrologer but he is at the same time--some might say--probably one of the most underrated one. In this short clip, he talks about PIC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAF-l8SQvZE Wallander 10/09/08 12:12pm I just wanted to say very briefly, i love you ladies. You always seem to know how to make a guilt-stricken man feel better again: ) I should say though that 'm NOT at all as sensitive as i sound here! It is EXACTLY what Amanda said...it is the unpersonal, voiceless & lifeless internet that causes ppl to misunderstand the nuances in other ppl's responses...there is a very fine expression about these online forums, which i find very precise & apt; they're often called "ghosts in the machine" : ) Pat 10/09/08 9:29am Wallander, a lot of what you are talking about whether you know it or not is other people's auras. You can feel other people's auras when they are close to your own aura and even see them by practice, practice, practice. Did you know by taking showers or tub baths cleanses your aura at the end of the day? We come into contact with so many types of people throughout our days that can draw on you and make you feel sluggish and tired at the end of the day.I know some of my past lives, it is easy to learn and it is easy to be attuned to the spiritual world to learn these things. But it's okay to agree to disagree. Milkshake 10/09/08 9:27am Wallander!! No need to apologize to me!! You are funny. I thought that comment you made about creamy and cheesy was very very funny. I didnt take it personal at all. you made me laugh. You can joke with me anytime, Wallander!! Pat 10/09/08 8:26am Wallander, you're not a poor-mannered ding-dong. Deb and Debbie, I understand everything you were saying. Sometimes we all just get fed up with so much crap from the government. WE should come first. Amanda, I am so glad you see our people and government from the past the way they were. I don't feel so alone about it now. Debbie 10/09/08 6:47am Hi Amanda, I am not blaming the kids, it just when these people sneak over the board and have kids every year. We end up supporting them through healtcare, taxes etc. We should not be responsible for that. If they decide to come here they need to apply like everyone else and do it legally. If they want to come no problem. JUST DO IT LEGALLY. :) Pat 10/09/08 5:23am This is from one of many past life books that I own: 1-Are there places you have always dreamed of visiting? 2-Are there places you would never want to visit? 3-Are there periods of history with which you felt more kinship with and which you enjoyed studying more? 3-Are there any activities you have always especially liked to watch or participate in? 5-Are there activities you have always wanted to participate in? Wanted to avoid participating? 6-Are there areas of the country that you feel negative about? 7-Is there an area of the country you feel especially drawn to? 8-Are there any particular people(s) that you feel drawn to or have an interest in(racially, religiously,socially and so on)? 9-Are there any particular people(s) you try to avoid(racially, religiously, socially and so on?) 10-Are there fears that you remember having had your entire life, since childhood? 11-What talents do you have that you have always known about, even if you have never used them? 12-What are your favorite foods? Least favorite? 13-Are there chronic ills since birth? 14-Are there any chronic problems, emotional issues or attitudes that you can attribute to early childhood? 15-Are there some people you have instantly felt close to, even if you have not known them long? Are there people you have been repelled by or felt uncomfortabe with, even if you have just met them? 16-Have you ever experienced a feeling of de'ja' vu?(French for "already seen".) This is the experience of recognizing a scene, a street, a house, and so on as being familiar, even though it has never been seen before.) 17-Young children often offer spontaneous evidence of past lives. They frequently mention other "homes" and other relationships with those around them. These expressions are usually casual and matter of fact. Did you do this as a child? Have you heard other children do this? 18-Can you see where the possibility of past lives would explain the phenomena of child prodigies? 19-Have you ever had recurring dreams of a particular place or time?(Dreams that reflect past lives often recur, and they have a vivid reality about them.) Is an unknown language ever spoken within the dream? Are the characters and setting in the past? Is there an anachronistic element within a modern scene; i.e., clothing, tools ad so on from the past? 20-Have you ever had an out-of-body experience, consciously or not?--(My words just to answer this question...sometimes in my sleep and when in deep meditation, my kids when growing up and my family would never disturb me during my meditation and still don't.)--What of a near death experience?(My words...I have) What could these tell you about the possibilty of life after death and rebirth?---There are many other ways and things to do to remember some of your past lives. This is just the tip of the ice berg. All the books say you can't really convince some, but that's okay. There are so many mystical things I could tell about my life from childhood up that would be unbelievable. Even my daughter is very psychic and amazes so many people all the time(the few friends she has, in her association with people through her work at home, in stores, etc.) I only have a tiny bit of psychic ability, I've never really tried to enhance it, she does.) Amanda 10/09/08 4:48am Debbie I think your attitude toward children is harsh. Sorry, but you know ALL children are innocent and should not suffer on their parents behalf. I can't blame anyone for coming here and trying to make it. Hell all of us NON INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, are foreigners, mainly European decent to be exact. I suppose that means we need to ship out too seeing as how we 'whelped' our children here. Sorry if you don't like it but the truth of the matter is this. Our ancestors came here, committed an attempted genocide and heinous acts against the Natives, the first and ONLY true Americans, enslaved Africans and lower class whites, Europeans ( yes it's true although you won't read about it in any mainstream history book) and built this country directly on the blood,sweat and fears of those people and by enslaving innocent people. If you think that there is no price to pay for that then you would be kidding yourself. Of course there is a price to pay..and pay is what we shall do. I would suggest that people start looking at the crimes that this country was built upon and accept the accountability for it. Debbie 10/09/08 4:37am I agree with you Deb. It seems the American government always wants to stick their nose in everyone elses business. We need to take care of our own first. I think it is because we have men running the government. They seem to be on some macho trip when they are placed there. I think a women can get us back on track and stop all the dishonest dealing that goes behind closed doors. My wish is that we had a government that is far to every American citizen. We should close our boarders and ship out ALL illegal aliens and their families including the kids they welped here. Because they are not automatically citizens. I know alot of people out there will say I am mean and cruel, but that is what America is about to be able to say and feel the way you want. Go after big corporation owners that put us in this economic situation and also the senators and congress that had a hand in this, like that creep Bernie Franks the head of the SCC who knew what was going on with Freddie and Fanny but looked the other way because he was having an affair with some guy in an important position at Fannie. I could go on and on. Deb 10/09/08 4:01am I'm from Australia and quite frankly I/we some of us are sick of the American leaders of state stuffing your country up and expecting the rest of the world to conform to helping out. If the states leaders wish to control the world and hold it to ransom for their mistakes the price has to be paid. We are a young country and have had many struggles. The moto is help those at home first before helping others. We have fought many wars that have not bben our own and has cost us a great deal in live and money. I love my country and and my childrens future. We are over populated as it is and have many cultural influnces as it lis. May your leaders find a better way. Amanda 10/09/08 3:26am You know how it is..this is the 'net..you can't hear a voice nor can you see a face. That can make it a bit harder..too there are those that are too sensitive for their own benefit. I am sure that last statement will get me in some hot water, oh well though..it is meant in general.. Wallander 10/09/08 2:35am We have a little expression in our country, where we say "so & so lacks the feel for the situation". It just means, having the "gift" to ruin any situation by unapropriate behaviour. Well, i would not go as far, to say that im capable of doing this ALL THE TIME, but i would say that it HAS occured to me occasionally that i might be lacking some kind of timing for the situation. In any case i'm looking forward to hearing more from you guys for a change, than to hear myself rant like some poor-mannered Ding Dong! : ) Wallander 10/09/08 2:01am I'm terribly sorry that my little attempt to joke with you, failed so miserably Milkshake. I'm really sorry if that was percieved as being on the edge to being insulting! It definitely wasnt my intention, that it should actually turn into s semi-personal thing. In any case, i'm ok, and i hope you're feeling ok yourself. Cheers. : ) Milkshake 10/08/08 7:55pm Um Wallander, I prefer Milkshake, Milky, or just plain Milk. You dont have to call me creamy and please dont call me cheesy....LOL.....I know this has nothing to do with the poll, but I defenitaly know there are past lives in each of us. Our souls never die. And we will all live and live again and meet and meet again. And LOL maybe next life we will have a 800 quadrupil dupil billion bailout or maybe no bail-out at all. I guess it just depends on how "good" we are. Amanda 10/08/08 3:47pm There is a case Wallander that proved you wrong. There was a man back in '97 that all of a sudden started having dreams. Too, he started getting the specific names of people, street addresses etc..in Chicago or New York..a place he had never been, did not know anyone from and had no desire to go. To top it off he was in the military then got out, became a police officer and then after he retired from that he became a private detective. Being a detective, he began to track down some of the names and addresses..those people that he had the names from were mostly dead, except for a couple. Bottom line he was actually able to prove his past life. See, apparently he had last lived in the 1920's or '30's. To top it off, he consented to various lie detector tests. When he met a couple of people..including the SURVIVING WIFE he knew details that was ONLY possible for her and the long dead husband to know.Believe me, it's real..we do come back over and over and over again. And yes, anyone can access their own past life memories, but one does have to be careful of how they do it or whom they get to aid them in that endeavor. I mean after all, it is a part of you, you were there, so why can't you do it? Wallander 10/08/08 2:59pm We humans are social animals. Many times in the journey of life, we come in contact with other human bodies, and thus we blend, interact, get involved, even get intimate with other human creatures. It is often during these associations with other living souls, that we become so rooted into other ppl, that we UNCONSCIENCELY begin to merge into their paths of life. Almost like having several Billion simultaneous movies played on one GIGANTIC screen where there are no physical boundries to stop one(or more) "movies" to crisscross one another in the process! This imagery is very telling & very important, in how to be able to see which "movie" is which. Often times we are in a company of some ppl, and we start recieving some kinds of "vibes" in the air that might inspire us to imagine a life that is geographically far away from ourselves. This can ALSO happen when we're all alone at home, and we automatically assume that this might be some "deeper indications of the existance of a pastlife, wherein we may have lived", and this is STILL due to the fact that we are associated with some ppl, at that particular period in our lives, who are UNCONSCIENCELY involved in our lives. These sudden 'whims' can also occur because of the bloodline from which we may come from--in other words from some far away ancestors of our own, many centuries ago, who have suddenly 'manifested' themselves in our current life. But there are MANY instances where we are actually 'tuned into' the past lives of eachother, and interperting it as something, as REAL as our own past life. In other words, i doubt very much that we ourselves are capable of 'tuning into' OUR OWN past lives, but rather that the ppl around us, will be able to feel it, as though it was a part of THEIR own past life. We are ONLY 'receptors' of someone else's pastlife, and NOT our own. Now i know this arguement might be in contradiction with your discriptions Pat, of what you percieve to be as your past lives, and i would therefore like to reserve your rights to agree to disagree with me, but i believe you are such a strong & sensitive soul, that in many of the cases that you have spoken of, you have simply been 'in tune' with other ppl's past lives in your surroundings, without your own awareness of it, and since they felt VERY real to you, you have understandably concluded that they were indeed scenes/episodes from your own past lives. You know, we humans(especially here in the 21st century) are not only "social animals", but we are also VICIOUSLY intriguing towards one another.... & ironically they happen without even our own awareness of them, because we are DROWNED DEEP in one another's subtle feelings of envy, jealousy, & unfulfilled dreams! And we thereby PROJECT our own souls into one another, by these very subtle & "ordinary" feelings towards one another. But having said all this, i do agree 100% with the rest of what you've said here, and i love the fact that you've put everything so neatly into a simple 'system' that makes sense for anyone who gets to hear it. Thanks for sharing: ) And Bam Bam, i dare say, i believe you're a lot smarter in this area, than you'd like to admitt. In any case i wanted to add one last comment regarding this pastlife site, that i made a slight discovery(sorry for sounding so pretentious!) that our normal everyday lives, in our normal everyday societies, only allow us to (re)live the middle section of the chart that has been discribed. Basically what i mean is, that if it were just upto the society, & the ppl around us, we would be re-living our past life, over & over again, and when it comes to the karmic lesson in THIS life....lets just say that our society would rather allow us to live a 'parody' version of what is discribed. Therefore it is so IMPORTANT for an individual to believe in himself/herself, and NOT let the intrusions of other ppl into our lives, to divert us from our simple karmic path....EVEN IF WE SOMETIMES HAVE TO FAKE IT! Personally speaking, i can tell you that i've come into so many situations where i was being constantly pushed around by others, to do what feels WRONG in my own heart, and to be thrown off my balance just for the amusement of the surroundings, and so many times i did exactly what they asked of me to do, and felt so miserable & ashamed of myself afterwards....but now, my personal 'strategy' is to always let my surroundings get what they want, but deep down i would know with 100% certainty that i know who i am, and NOBODY can take that feeling away from me (again)! Anyways sorry once again for the long & perhaps sometimes intimate comment here!: ) Oh & btw i enjoyed your last comment a lot Amanda. You sound like an intelligent & DEEP soul, and i believe i'm right when i say that i could actually learn A LOT of things from you, because you keep coming up with that 'surprise factor'! ;-) OKKKKKKKKK....i think it's time i took a long break from posting any more comments in here for a while because i've REALLY exhausted myself the last few days with all these high-flying things that keep coming out of my keyboard without my own control. **PlanetEarthCallingWallander** :-D Bam Bam 10/08/08 11:16am You know I once had someone tell me I was a slave in Egypt...this reading wasn't that far off. Apparently I was a writer then too! What a kick! My past life diagnosis: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know how you feel about it, but you were male in your last earthly incarnation.You were born somewhere in the territory of modern Egypt around the year 775. Your profession was that of a writer, dramatist or organiser of rituals. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your brief psychological profile in your past life: Ruthless character, carefully weighing his decisions in critical situations, with excellent self-control and strong will. Such people are generally liked, but not always loved. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The lesson that your last past life brought to your present incarnation: Your lesson is to study, to practice and to use the wisdom that lies within the psychological sciences and in ancient m****cripts. With strong faith and hard work you will reach your real destiny in your present life. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you remember now? Pat 10/08/08 11:04am I apologize to the ones that want to talk politics. Just ignore me and pass over my comment if it irritates you. To the ones of us talking about past lives and/or reincarnation, I have over the years learned some things about some of my past lives through past life meditation and studying. I'll give the short version, instead of the long version, a little at a time. Each of us(to the ones that believe in this topic) carry over things into each past life lived to your most recent life. Whether good or bad or indifferent, things learned, things not conquered yet. It's not to punish us, but to help us ascend higher spiritually. We all have wills, so that can rearrange our teaching faster or slower. Many people tend to follow each other into each life lived, also. I know I had past lives in Scotland and Ireland. I know I was a warrior, because it is still ingrained in my soul. I know I was an upstairs maid in a castle in England and was raped and I didn't overcome it and that is why I was raped in this lifetime. I know sometime in this life I have to forgive and forget. I know I was a Native American in the late 1700's to early 1800's. I don't know if I was male or female yet on that one. I know I never lived long in any of my past lives, I always died young, by getting killed and/or committing suicide. The last past life before the one I'm in now was in the early 1940's. I was standing on the roof of a tall building and crying and jumped. I know I lost someone in WWII that I loved very, very much and couldn't live without. I conquered suicide in this life years ago. I know this life now is the longest I have lived. I have such curiosity about everything that I know I will come back more in the future. Maybe or maybe not close together, but I know I will be back. I'm not finished learning as much about life and spirituality as I still want to do. Amanda 10/08/08 10:33am Wallander Thank you for both posts. You are dead on the money. With regards to our society a major issue is that we don't think for ourselves and most only see things in black and white..there is no black and white. That is only the constructs of humans to make things easier for them to cope with. In reality it isn't true. If you see in black and white then you miss out on most of the Universe and spiritual progression. It doesn't work like that. Am I skeptical..you d.a.m.n straight I am. I do a lot of things, see a lot of things and as a result I know there is always far more unseen than seen, unsaid then said. Are we entering darkness? We have been since we set foot on this continent's soil. The minute that one rids themselves of their preconceived ideals is the moment one actually stands a chance at learning something. is the darkness and destruction of this country bad? Depends on your point of view..and mine is that its high time for restructuring..time to change, time to demand more out of our government and mostly time to demand more out of ourselves. Too many people blame this or blame that when in reality what happened was the people sat back, got lazy, and let others run their affairs. It's really no different then when Peter Frampton and Willy Nelson were bilked out of their fortunes by dishonest people.Who is supposed to mind the store? We blame the government, but we are just as responsible for falling asleep on the job. One of these days hopefully people will stop playing the blame game and get up and do something..such as come together and massively demand drastic changes. Wallander 10/08/08 9:20am Btw Amanda, i applause your sense of skepticism. This is ALWAYS the right approach! I honestly felt bad about giving you guys the link to the aformentioned site. I TRUELY despise the idea of pushing ppl out of balance, by introducing completely RADICAL things, and insisting on that they DO work. Therefore i wanted to share something that is a lot more enjoyable to watch. It is basically an 'interactive museum' of ancient wisdom, mostly coming from Europe. There are a lot of Greek philosophy, plus other things related to poetry, alchemy & religion. I can guarantee you all, that you will come out of this museum, having enjoyed yourselves. And there is absolutely nothing radical or scary in it. Anyways, it is entirely up to you, whether you'd like to see it or not. Oh & btw, there may be a need for 3D glasses, if you happen to have such a thing somewhere in the house! The link is here: http://www.lostwonder.org/flashtour/Museum_explore.htm Wallander 10/08/08 8:50am May i say that that was a wonderful little proverb you came up with Pat!! You kick ass, woman!!! No sorry, it was the proverb that kicks ass. Those Chinese folks are so unbelievably blessed with such a GREAT history, culture & wisdom, but unfortunately they have turned their backs to their own cultural heritage the last 200 yrs or so. You know, one of the great fathers of psychology Carl Jung, was a HUGE fan of the ancient Chinese oracle-system iChing, and he found his own personal 'depth' thru his extensive studies of the ancient Chinese wisdom. It is such a shame that in our time, we are are constantly under the "soothing treatments" by the media industry, B-rated entertainment & crappy movies, because our generation of pp(or basically all the generation of ppl eversince the '50s when we were introduced to TV) is so easily intimitated & fearful when we step into "deeper waters", and we have grown so spiritually lazy to absorb the deeper aspects of our own existence. We are so fearful of the dark, or anything that has the SLIGHTEST hints of darkness! This is also quite relevant to PIC because as we move towards the future during the next 15 yrs. we are going to realize that the bravest of souls are those who can move into that dark place, with a feeling of 100% certainty that NOTHING is going to happen to them! The darkness here is the symbol of the 'unknown' with regards to the society, and it is the symbol of our own personal 'shadow' with regards to psychology. The future looks like a place covered in THICK fog right now, but as time goes on we will realize that there is absolutely NO danger ahead on our road ahead, once we have grown strong in our hearts & souls. Btw Milkshake, if you promise to behave yourself, i can perhaps move you up a notch to "creamy"...but if you dont behave, i can move you down to "cheesy". :p (OK,now i'm really pushing it...that was a 'thin' joke!) But regarding Pluto, you know, our current 'zeitgeist'(time-spirit in German) started all the way back in 1818 when Pluto made its entrance into Aries. In other words we are STILL moving on the same wave which started around the Victorian Era. We are the VERY extention of the Victorian Era. And our current 'zeitgeist' is going to end sometimes in the 2060's-2070's, and we are going to move into a FRESH new era. This whole 248 yrs that we are going thru at the moment, has been the era of industrial revolution, innovation, inventions, information, media, intelligence, etc... But once we have passed thru the whole 248 yrs cycle, we are going to see our civilization embracing the deeper aspects of the human soul. This is because by then we will realize, that we may be so incredibly talented when it comes to Intelligence, science & math,etc...but we have absolutely NO idea what goes on inside our own hearts & minds. The whole aim of the next 248 yrs will be HARMONY, and how we can achieve that. Our aims for Intelligence(scientific perfection) will take the back seat, and there will be many experimentations & many failures, but we will nontheless try again & again & again, until we have mapped out more or less, the entire psychological terrains of the human mind. This will enable us to utilize EVERY SINGLE individual in the society to become more productive thru out his/her life. Our current generation will be seen as "wasteful", both in human resources & also in raw material. Anyways, whether or not, ALL of these things will actually happen in the future, is basically insignificent. What is more important(to me) is that they have inspired you & others, to look for your own visions of the future, because one individual can only see a few glimpse of "the writings on the wall", but when it is done thru a more collective effort, then the sum of all these small glimpses will give a much clearer indication of which direction we are all headed in the future. Sorry for the long post. Cheers. : ) Pat 10/08/08 5:59am I couldn't get in the last poll before I left yesterday. I will try again later. I think it is the computer. I have said in other polls before that I love proverbs, especially from all around the world. I have to share this one."If there is light in the soul, There will be beauty in the person. If there is beauty in the person, There will be harmony in the house. If there is harmony in the house, There will be order in the nation. If there is order in the nation, There will be peace in the world." This is an old Chinese Proverb. It is the truth and I loved it. I hope everyone understands it, even if you don't like it or disagree. Amanda 10/08/08 5:44am Http://www.thebigview.com/pastlife/ this is the link Amanda 10/08/08 3:25am All you gotta do is copy and paste the link from Wallander's comment. Then plug in your birthday and it pops up for you. That is what mine came out to be. Currently I am working on my own tarot site so I can give live readings through either email or IM. I have to study up on html and other stuff..man it's tough to understand. I want my site friendly and pretty. I just got sick of seeing people bilk others out of money shamelessly. There is no reason in the word to pay 1.99 a minute or twenty biks for a reading that really doesn't help out. Most people simply use the Celtic Cross..it's a good spread, but doesn't tell you how to avoid any pitfalls or any actions to take..and folks was lots of money for that. So anyway, I decided I could do a much better job and let the customer set the price..anyhoo..it's too early in the morning here and I have not had enough coffee.. Bam Bam 10/07/08 7:52pm Amanda do mine too! Please?? I love that stuff, granted I didn't read why you that - but nonetheless I'd love to read what you have to say about mine. Milkshake 10/07/08 6:39pm Hey Wallander! I like that nick name, Milky! LOL Milkshake 10/07/08 3:21pm I didnt know we could go back to the last poll either, Pat. And Wallander if I were a virgo in a past life...LOL..I am definatey the opposite of virgo. I am a sagittarius in this life though. And a happy-go-lucky one too. Hee Hee. Pat 10/07/08 2:41pm Thanks Ed, I value yours and everyone's opinion on here, also. Even when we disagree. Man!! It is hard to stay away. I'm fighting a losing battle with myself as I type this in and am laughing at myself. First...Zak, many hospitals are taking the emergency rooms out. This has been going on for the last 3-4 years. In the near future people will have no choice but go to clinics with (mediocre at best) doctors. The wealthy will have the best. The nursing situation is already happening. Many hospital floors have one RN per floor. Second...You know the old saying "Cleanliness is next to Godliness". Well, with all the staff infections that people are getting from hospitals and many dying from those infections they get, we know there are many ungodly hospitals in this nation. If hospitals were cleaned and sanitized like they used to be, this wouldn't happen. Wallander, I didn't know that we could go back to the last poll and still get in. I have to go now, will talk more tomorrow. I'm checking the last poll now. Amanda 10/07/08 1:43pm Your past life diagnosis: I don't know how you feel about it, but you were female in your last earthly incarnation.You were born somewhere in the territory of modern Korea around the year 1250. Your profession was that of a chemist, alchemist or poison manufacturer. Your brief psychological profile in your past life: You were a sane, practical person, a materialist with no spiritual consciousness. Your simple wisdom helped the weaker and the poor. The lesson that your last past life brought to your present incarnation: You should develop self-love and ability to implant hope into hearts of people. Ambition is not everything. True wealth is buried in your soul. Do you remember now? here's mine..cool.Don't believe it but cool anyway. Wallander 10/07/08 1:15pm Oops too late! I didnt see your very last comment until first after i'd finished posting mine. I'm going to leave my comments in the previous poll from now on. So see you in there Milky & Pat... Wallander 10/07/08 1:04pm LOL...i thought that was a hilarious comment Milkshake! My imediate understanding of that statement is, that you were rather sensitive when it came to the mess in your surroundings. In other words you may have some kind of "unconscience method" in how you normally deal with the way your surroundings effect your inner mood. If you find yourself in CHAOTIC surroundings, you might become downright ill. And in the larger scales of things, you might even have some hidden talents when it comes to dealing with the polution of our very planet! But generally speaking, the discription of your Karma here, sounds awfully close to the sign of Virgo[or if not, then definitely you were in the element of Earth]. You may have been either a Virgo in your past life, or Virgo could have been a dominant sign in your chart, which means you may have had strong aspects to the sign of Virgo. In any case i can imagine that you are either actively inspiring to your surroundings, OR you are "passively" inspiring the ppl around you, to be extra-efficient in the way they utilize different kinds of products, materials, so on & so forth, simply because ppl like the way you work with these materials/products. You could easily be a SUPER salesman because you have the talents to make finished products--or even the simplest materials--to look good in your hands. You make everything "blossom" in your surroundings, whether intentionally or un-intentionally. Milkshake 10/07/08 12:56pm Oh and yes, Wallander I agree very much to post any and all PIC comments!! Milkshake 10/07/08 12:10pm Where I live, Zak, is a city that is getting larger and larger and larger!! The hopitals and medical facilities used to be ALOT better than what they are today. They have greatly worsened over the years I have lived here. Thanks for that interesting site, Wallander!! My lesson in this life is that I am bound to solve problems of pollution of environment, recycling misuse of raw materials, etc.....What the hell does that mean? Was I wasteful in my pastlife? LOL Wallander 10/07/08 11:24am Btw this is what it says about my own DOB: -------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know how you feel about it, but you were female in your last earthly incarnation.You were born somewhere in the territory of modern ex-Yugoslavia around the year 1450. Your profession was that of a chemist, alchemist or poison manufacturer. -------------------------------------------------------------- Your brief psychological profile in your past life: You were a sane, practical person, a materialist with no spiritual consciousness. Your simple wisdom helped the weaker and the poor. -------------------------------------------------------------- The lesson that your last past life brought to your present incarnation: Your lesson is to conquer jealousy and anger in yourself and then in those who will select you as their guide. You should understand that these weaknesses are caused by fear and self-regret. -------------------------------------------------------------- Appearantly i used to be some gypsy woman(LOL) from somewhere in the Baltics area. In any case i think the description in the final section is so spot-on, regarding the way my life has shaped itself out in this life! Personally speaking i feel ALL my life i've been struggling to "climb over" these 2 emotions[anger & jealousy], and a lot of times i've even had to put Olympian efforts just to conceal these 2 feelings from other ppl, because eversince my childhood i've had this instinctive notion that i have to be the "master of my own emotions". Thru out the yrs i've gradually learned that i have to dedicate most of my life to the world of psychology, in order to ALWAYS have the oversight & objectivity over all the things that are personally-hurtful to me, which so often before has caused me to lose my precious temper, or to have grown dependent[hence: possessiveness/jealousy] on other ppl in my surroundings! At the end of the day i believe the whole mission of my life is always about being able to cut ALL the umbilical cords in my own life, in order to free myself (& others) from becoming TOO MUCH attatched...& it is nothing short of a life-long mission for me. Anyways thats enough about me. I just wanted to show how this pastlife thing actually relates to my life, in such a precise way. I would like to get back, and mention a few other interesting things about PIC a little bit later on. Btw i'm not sure if it's such a good thing that we're posting comments about PIC on this particular poll. Maybe we should make a deal right now, to post the rest of our PIC comments, back in the previous poll? What do you say Milkshake & Pat? Sorry if i've been annoying other poll participants by posting these stuff on this particular poll! : ) Wallander 10/07/08 10:39am To Pat & Milkshake: There is this very interesting site on the net[http://www.thebigview.com/pastlife/] where you can see what person you were in your previous life and what year it was, and what you worked with, etc...it also tells you about your Karma in this life. I can guarantee you that the precision of it is almost spooky! But what i more interesting, is that usually when you get someone who is said to have been born in the USA, it says things like "you were a male in your last earthly incarnation.You were born somewhere in the territory of modern USA South-East around the year 1775. Your profession was that of a sailor or shoemaker. Your brief psychological profile in your past life: Such people are always involved with all new. You have always loved changes, especially in art, music, cooking. The lesson that your last past life brought to your present incarnation: There is an invisible connection between the material and the spiritual world. Your lesson is to search, find and use this magical bridge." Or for example if you put in the DOB of someone as relevant as Sen. Joe Biden, you would get a SLIGHTLY different answer. The point is that i have ALWAYS seen ONLY 3 types of answers on the ppl who were from the US in their past life, which are slightly different from one another. It is also interesting to notice at the way the author of this online software[who btw is a Ukranian woman, who is INCREDIBLY talented. For instance she speaks 11 international languages fluently!] has divided the USA territories into "South-East" or "North-West", or so on & so forth...if i'm not making a mistake, i think she has divided the USA into 4 equal parts. So this is very important in understanding the very 'identity' of America. In other words it is almost impossible to put USA into 1 single category. There are atleast 4 different sections with their own SLIGHTLY different characteristics. Notice that i'm saying "slightly" in Capital letters, because as a matter of fact they are ONLY slightly different from one another. But nontheless there are 4 seperate sections. Some of the famous ppl worth mentioning here--off the top of my head right now--who were passed as having presumably been born in the USA in their past lives, are Bruce Willis, Joe Biden[a very authentic man indeed. Btw notice that he was a Captain!], the girl from "King of Queens" Leah Remini, and a thousand of other ppl whose names i've forgotten. Actually it's amazing that i can only remember these 3 ppl, because i've seen so many other famous & non-famous ppl's DOB, passed as having been born in the States! Anyways i hope this bit of info has been helpful or atleast inspirational in your little projects. And if you hadnt already heard of that site before, i 'd definitely recommend that you try the link for fun, and check out as many ppl's DOB as possible...both the celebs & also ppl from your own lives. After a while you'd be amazed just how TRUE the answers are. Sorry for this loooong post btw. : ) Ed 10/07/08 10:33am Come on Pat we all like to hear from you. We also value your opinion like everyone else. :) Zak 10/07/08 9:46am Milkshake sorry about the hospital situation in your area Do you live in a small town and do you have a large city close by where you can go. I know most hospitals are very good and my point is you can choose any hospital and doctor you want. Jinxed you are wrong any hospital will take a patient. You do not have to go to a clinic. Alot of illegal immigrants go to clinics to hid the fact they are here illegally or they go to hospital emergency rooms to get service. My point on all of this is that with McCain you have the right to choose you doctors, hospitals or if you prefer go to a clinic. If you don't have insurance hospitals still have to take you. Under Obama you will loose that choice and get a nurse with just enough experience that can hurt you. She will have the authority to decide if you need a doctor's assistance. She or He will be overworked and of course under paid and you will suffer for it. If the nurse thinks you need to see a doctor you may get an appointment a month or two from now. Jinxed no one will win if Obama gets to put in his healtcare or tax policy/programs. The rich will only benefit because they will be able to fly overseas to get good doctors where we will not have that luxury. Pat 10/07/08 9:42am Milkshake and Wallander, I'm still around and reading. I'm just so tired of and bored with all the political polls for awhile. It's all the same stuff. How many times do we all have to repeat our thoughts on the subject.(This is just my opinion, not to pi** anyone off). BUT it is still interesting to read others opinions on it. I promise when I get the chart finished I will type it in. I'm not working on it through the week, just on weekends. Milkshake 10/07/08 9:36am China is similar to the way you described the way our new health care system might become, Zak. Milkshake 10/07/08 9:30am Zak, your comments are very interesting. I dont know where you live. But where I live our little health-care system suks now! I have great insurance too. Our 2 hospitals changed. One hospital is quite rude to the patients and mean. The doctors.....I cannot comment. It's so bad. Anyway, I won't comment anymore right now. Jinxed 10/07/08 9:28am If McCain & Co. wins this year, you won't even be able to have your dog checked in one of those clinics you so despise. The ONLY ones benefitting from a McCain healthcare system, will be the rich folks' dogs! Zak 10/07/08 8:14am I believe we should not be footing the bill for corporations, mortgage companies and brokers. They should all pay for the mistake themselves! They can sell their houses, boats, cars etc. Who cares if they become broke. They deliberatly made their companies take the fall and they should pay!! They should also get jail time. As far as Fannie and Freddie the government should be held accountable. Throw them all in prision and take away their pensions. They will know immediately what it is like to be poor. All the jerks that were on the finance committee in the 90's which is when this was first noticed and sorry all you liberals out there but McCain did try to pass legislation to bring this to their attention, but noone would listen. The people who took out mortgages are also responsible. They knew going in that with what they make they could not afford the homes they purchased. I don't believe we should help them either. If they loose their homes all the better. They have learned a valuable lesson I hope. I am neither a democrat or republican. I am an independent and I was leaning toward Obama till I did some investigating into his background and also on his policies. We will definitely go into a depression if he goes with his tax policy. His universal healthcare proposal will cost the tax payer to much that we will have people living in the streets. Also the kind of healtcare we we get would be way below standards that I would not take my dog to any of the clinics. You notice I said clinics, because that is where you would go and get ready to wait weeks and even months to see a doctor. Better hope you don't have a serious problem. So between his extreme tax policy and universal healthcare. Only the rich will survive, but not by much. I also don't like his associations since he was young with questionable people like Ayers and Wright. He is far to liberal for my liking, so I will vote for McCain this time, and wait till the next election to see who the Democrat candidate will be. If it is Hillary I will vote for her. If Obama runs again, I will stick with the Republican candidate. Milkshake 10/06/08 7:51pm Thanks Pat. Let me know and Wallander too when you come up with your chart. And let me know if you can find any sites on the states and signs. About this poll, I voted my yes or no but wont say which.I dont like getting into deep discussions about politics, but like reading them. Amanda 10/06/08 6:55pm Speaking of waking up I am wondering when people will stop party bashing and start holding the entire governing body responsible. There are no innocent people..except the ones who are homeless now. IMO..this isn't about politics and no matter what..greed covers everyone. I don't think when the dealing was being done they overly cared about what party was doing what. Votes were bought, bills passed..whatever.Everyone on capital hill knew what was going on..everyone had a chance to turn it around. The signs of this happening were evident years ago..but yet NO ONE did anything..they just did not believe it could happen..so they ignored it. Economist after economist warned of this. During the great stimulus package, they knew what was wrong. they new about the debt and still tried to by, sell and trade it. Make no mistake, they knew before all of this actually happened ..both sides definitely knew then and certainly could have stepped in and stopped it..NO ONE did. NOT a rep..not a dem..NO ONE!!! Now..you wanna point fingers like kids on the play ground be my guest. But..I hold ALL of them responsible as they have miserably failed those that they were supposed to protect. Wallander 10/06/08 3:45pm Thanks a lot Bam Bam. The admiration is quite mutual, i should tell you. But 'No thanks' to your Wink. Sorry, i've just had my supper..:-D...but after what i saw last week, i'm afraid i'm no longer the same man i used to be! I can only fall for someone who can wink to me like a Sara Palin. LOL ;-D Kit Kat 10/06/08 3:37pm Reagan started us down this economic downturn with his deregulation of many industries. The Republicans controlled Congress during the Clinton years - yes, he should have vetoed the bill to abolish Glass-Stegall, but he did not. We have the Republicans to thank for the fine mess we are in. If McCain gets elected, then American deserves to go down the tubes. Anyone hear Gore Vidal on Alternative Radio this weekend? He spoke on the fall of America - very enlightening - very frightening - is anyone really paying attention or are we all going to cry foul when we are in soup kitchen lines reminiscent of the Depression? Wake up people - Wallander 10/06/08 3:33pm To Debbie; the current financial crisis can just as well be exploited by the Republicans also. McCain & Palin could use the typical scare tactics of "more taxes" much more effeciently now. So i'm afraid your arguements don't hold water. As a matter of fact i could argue that this crisis makes it even more challenging for Obama to sell his ideas of 'effecient taxation' because it is a given, that any typical democrat causes which is linked to money, can only cause a negative mood among the undecided voters. So he has to be EXTRA cautious right now. This whole crisis at this point in time, is a much better subject for McCain to exploit, than it is for Obama. Bam Bam 10/06/08 3:15pm Wallender I'm enjoying reading your comments! Your admiration for Pat even makes me smile in the light of it. By the way...I forgot to add a "Wink" at the end of my last sentence in my other post! "@@" LOL. Bam Bam 10/06/08 3:10pm God help us all if everyone thinks like Debbie! If anyone watched the Presidential debate they did a fact checker just at the end of the show and they showed that McCains policies would raise taxes considerably MORE than Obama's. Plus, Bush and McCain are giving an additional 400 billion in tax relief to the oil company's. That was just on the news today. I tell you what I'll give Daddy Oil Bucks a tax break when HE gives US a break in the price of gas! Why should we pay gas high prices so the oil companies can make BILLIONS and they still get a flipping tax break! Why??? Because they are so broke? Because they spend so much on research for alternative fuels? NOT! .......I'LL TELL YA WHAT - YOU WANT EVERYTHING TO STAY THE SAME VOTE McCAIN. As for Debbies comment about Clinton - PROVE IT! Tell us all issue by issue what your referring to. OR will ya check on it & get back to us later???? Wallander 10/06/08 2:42pm Regarding the signs of the US, and EACH of the states, it makes perfect sense Pat. I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say when you're finished with the chart. But with regards to all the other things you said.... **WallanderHuggingTheAir** ;-) Wallander 10/06/08 2:06pm It's almost tragicomical to see the Republicans sink to a new alltime LOWS in their desperate attempts to keep diverting the blame on someone else! If George W. Bush is being criticised, then you hear just "what a miserable president Jim Carter was back in the 70's". If you're criticising the war in Iraq, then you hear just "what a bunch of double-crossing politicians, the democrats in the senate" are. If you're criticising the current financial melt down, you have to hear just "what an evil manipulator" Obama is going to be as a president in the future, and what an "incompetant, manipulating politician" Bill Clinton was back in the 90's for having started this whole financial mess we're facing here in 2008. No sir, appearantly the past 8 yrs. i've had my head up in my arse! And boy, am i glad there are still some responsible& decent ppl out there, who can actually clarify everything for ALL of us mentally-challenged folks! Amanda 10/06/08 1:28pm I don't care who belongs to what party..bottom line, if they had anything to do with it..FRY THEM. I think that everything they have...everything..should be forfeit. All savings..all property..all cars..everything..college funds..everything. Bottom line is this. Both parties are willing participants in it. You cannot convince me that there are those that are on either side of the fence and had a hand in the morgage industry and they didn't know. Ed 10/06/08 11:19am I don't think we should bail out the banks and mortgage lenders especially Fannie and Freddie (those institutions are supported by the democrats). I feel that their CEO's CFO's etc are to blame, along with some politicians. They need to be accountable for this mess and should pay out the ass (excuse my french), then they need to do some jail time. What they did was dishonest. They knew the people they lended to would not be able to afford these homes, but gave them the money anyway. This crap started happening in the 1990's. McCain saw it coming and noone would listen so now we are where we are today. I like Deb's idea of giving the 700 billion to the American people to help all of us get back on track and maybe put some money away. Debbie 10/06/08 9:36am I think they are wasting the 700 Billion on the Mortgage lenders and the Banks. They should all take out loans or file bankruptcy and start over. I don't believe the American people should have to help. I think the government should give the 700 Billion to us Americans as a stimulus package. That would help the American people greatly and probably get alot of us out of debt. Those crooks in the Congress, how much of a kick back are they getting? I think we need to clean house and get rid of all senators and congressman and the President and the idiots that are trying to get in this November. Obama is worthless and is enjoying the misery of the American people right now and knows alot of the Americans will vote for him because of what is happening even though this crap started in Clinton era. Obama will tax the hell out of all of us. He states that he will only go after people making 250,000.00 a year or more, bullshxt. There are more people making less that that and thats where the taxes will come from. Wait and see!!! They will also make us pay for some liberal/radical programs that will take away our civil liberities. We will lose America if that ass gets into office. God help us all! Amanda 10/06/08 7:42am Paula I agree. As it stands the entire global economy is falling down on it's face. For years big business has taken jobs out of this country. Did you know that they are still teaching that shipping jobs over seas is a good idea because it helps others economy? I was talking to a young man the other day. Apparently the simple idea that if you don't have jobs HERE that PAY then you cannot spend money because you are too worried trying to stay afloat of all the monthly bills. That means you can't really afford to go buy new cloths or new shoes or to a movie..you can't really afford jewelry or a new car..and all of that and more is precisely what drives our economy..not the paying of bills, but the ability to afford the niceties in life. It amazes me just how short sited and stupid both the banking and big business industries have been. All they cared about was making that buck NOW..they didn't care about the fact that in a relatively short period of time this was going to cave in. We, the average people are hit the hardest but you know what..I am soooo looking forward to reading about those big wigs loosing millions...it's about time. You know who will pick up the pieces though..the average person. That's how it always is.... Paula 10/06/08 6:09am I say if the economy is going to fall flat on it's face, let it. This is a case of history repeating it's self. The Civil War, the Great Depression. . . In every case the working class was the worst hit, and the same working class was ultimately responsible for bailing the country out. Iraq, this bail out, global economy, & the threat of peace. What, if anything are we leaving our children & grandchildren? Global debt, national debt, and war. That thought is down right chilling. Pat 10/06/08 6:01am Only going back to the last poll, not this new one. Milkshake and Wallander, you go by when each part of the land was claimed or born as a state if you want to know what state is under what sign. The U.S. as a whole has it's own sign. I haven't finished the chart yet, but I will. Oh my lord, Jinxed, I loved the joke on the last poll. It was hilarious. Wallander, you didn't make me uncomfotable with what you said. Actually, I'm flattered to be asked on a date from the other side of the world. But I bet I'm old enough to be your mom. Honey, I am completely content with my single life, there is nothing miserable about that part of my life. Love ya though for the sweet comments. I'll see you all on the next poll, I am so tired of all the politics. I'll read all of them though. When I finish the chart, I'll still put it in for Milkshake and Wallander. Amanda 10/05/08 5:18pm I agree that instead of trying to go full bore that slow and steady is better. Normally if something sounds like it's too good to be true that is because it is. I am really hoping to see arrests and convictions of those that did all of this to begin with. Some of them according to reports are senators themselves. Too, I don't think any CEO or any Bank President deserves any sort of payoff..they should have known long ago this was bad..bad for the people who got the loans, bad for their banks, and bad for everyone else around. Wallander 10/05/08 3:39pm The market needs some stable frameworks in order to grow steadily & gradually. Their motto should be "better to have a slow & gradual growth, than to grow completely out of control, and out of any sane proportions". It is therefore paramount that the market is completely transparent & predictable, and this can ONLY happen if there is a "framework" which is proposed & monitored by the gov't! I know this is a nightmare scenario for the traditional conservatives, but the alternative is a market that is completely out of anyone's control which is more harmful than good at the end of the day. It's almost like driving a car...sometimes you need to go one gear down instead of constantly gearing up. Dee 10/05/08 10:00am I say bail out people on mainstreet before wall street Amanda 10/05/08 7:24am I see what you mean by the numbers. I am totally undecided about the bail out. Bottom line, it will all hinge on what is done with the money, where it is put and whether or not new lending laws are enforced. I posted a link two poles ago about the predatory lending laws that the Bush admin suspended in order to make loans more open for people...and the results of that are now in..big black holes of debt and people who should have never gotten the loans they got are now in foreclosure or homeless. I am not saying people don't deserve to own their own homes, but you know these banks should have had enough sense to see that these people did not have the income for the loans to begin with. I think they did see that, but just did not care about it at all. It was all about commissions and interest rates. They new that this has been coming for years and if you'll reflect back through news articles and reports about our economy and real estate you can see where they HAD to know. This could have been avoided..and it pisses me off that it was not. Bam Bam 10/05/08 4:40am How is it possible we have eight voters and the poll says 100% said no but 63% said yes. That's goofy. You just know someone some where is going to find a way to corrupt the bailout and make money off it. Did anyone watch the VP debates? This election is getting really good. Was anyone bothered by the answer Palin's gave when asked about whether or not the bailout would effect her plans for change. Her answer was "I've only been at this for 5 weeks - I don't have any promises." She been asserting her and McCains promises since she was announced on the ticket. I just don't see how she can be running for VP and claim not to have any promises. She and McCain have promised all these reforms yet she claims not to have any promises. I have honestly been trying to listen to the Reps and hear their plan- but they haven't changed my mind and haven't clearly defined their agenda as being different than Bush's. Palin is a good speaker and has lot's of energy...but I felt annoyed when she claimed to speak for every American and the winking I think at times was fake. I just don't see the executive in her and at times I felt spoken down to. I just don't think the bailout will be good for Americans, whether or not it's good for the country who knows. Some are saying that our economy is still weak and the international investors are not buying into it.