Guns and rifles should be banned in all major cities.

Total Voters: 706 Yes 54% No 54% Undecided 54% Vallender 06/06/08 9:38pm To BamBam and Jeff; i am from Oslo, Norway. And to answer your questions rather briefly, yes we TOO have our share of monsters here in the EU. How about the 73 yr. old father from Austria who locked up his own daughter in a cellar for almost 24 yrs., and continually raped her until just recently when he was caught by accident?! I do NOT claim that i come from PARADISE on Earth but i can definitely see that we have a problematic love-relationship with America. Our LOVE for America seems to have no boundries, and i dont believe that that is very healthy on the long run. We accept nearly EVERYTHING that comes from the States -- no questions asked -- and our society looks more and more like just another extention of America. We need to become a little bit more critical-minded regarding our one-sided love for the US imho! And perhaps by doing this, we could in turn begin to effect the American society in a positive way. I regard America and my own country(and perhaps also the rest of the Scandinavian countries in general) like eachother's 'cousins', and what better way to inspire one another, and lift up one another whenever the other part needs a helping-hand?! I honestly have a lot of sympathy for America and the Americans -- not to mention that i've ALWAYS looked up to this great nation, its history, and its people, so it is NOT with a sense of moral superiority that i'm talking to you people, but from a DEEP concern that we all need to create STRONGER bonds, and inspire one another, in order to better our societies. Bam Bam 06/06/08 6:43pm Well, the only people I know that hate Americans that much is the Quebecois'. There is crime all over the world. It did not begin in America since we all came here to start this new life from all over the world. Ganghis-Khan was far more naughty, Napoleon, Hitler just to name a few. They killed millions and not just with guns. Crime did not originate in the US. No-one here goes around performing the same acts as the Taliban either. Saddam Hussein certainly didn't get his prejudice here either. His Uncle was a leader who went to Germany and was a known admirer of Hitler. his Uncle spread that hatred to Saddam. If anything I have more evidence to prove that Hitler's acts and hatred have spread more violence than any gun issues in the US. Those A-holes sure as hell didn't get those ideas from us. Vallender, your argument is somewhat biased and without real substance. If you want support for your argument provide some personal experiences or evidence to support it. Then someone might agree with you. Jeff 06/06/08 2:32pm Vallender where are you from? Seriously? You act as if you come from another planet where human frailty is non-existent. You claim the US is a society "based on GREED, biggotry, suspecion, murder, etc" as if we are all demons hell bent on corrupting the world and yet you give no hint of where you are from as if you are afraid we will expose your hypocrisy. It's easy to throw stones from your glass house if your glass house is hidden from view. I don't know why you have such an anti-American agenda but I can tell you it's egregious beyond doubt. No matter where you are from, you can't deny the good things about this country and it's people. We are the most generous people this planet has ever seen. Just look at the hundreds of billions of dollars we donate each year to causes around the world like AIDS, natural disasters, starvation, etc. Much of this is not just Government contributions derived from our taxes, but rather unsolicited voluntary donations from our own hard earned savings. We are a very wealthy nation not because of greed, but because of our freedom to explore our full potential and trade with others. Liberty is what set us apart from other countries early in our history and this is what other countries have learned and adopted from us. The alternatives are monarchies, oligarchies, and dictatorships. Our years of self-less contributions to the world not just in dollars but with our blood goes completely unnoticed yet we continue on this righteous path because that is who we are. The truth is it matters not where you are from because every person in every corner of the Earth has benefited greatly from our innovation in all areas including medicine, technology, economics, etc. We are a nation of laws and justice. It's certainly not perfect because people are not perfect, but it's the best this planet has ever seen. Again I ask, where are you from? Don't worry, there is no way we would know your exact whereabouts even if you lived in the smallest country in the world, but it would sure help provide some insight into your deep rooted hatred of our country. Vallender 06/06/08 1:05pm Doesnt change the fact that the American society is a society on the brink of self-destructionn, and any society which is based on GREED, biggotry, suspecion, murder, etc...is NOT a worthy society to become the moral-police for the rest of the world! If anything, the American system & society has ONLY brought IMMORALITY to the rest of the world, which is such a crying shame because it is still deeply LOVED thru out the world. But it MUST NOT be allowed to effect the rest of the world -- directly or indirectly -- as long as it is following the path it has been following eversince the start of the 60's! Enough is enough! 06/01/08 9:45pm I'm thinking we need to consider the source here folks. This wallender, vallender, or who ever they are has been extremely critical towards everyone and everything throughout this poll. He, she, or, it has not given a single clue as to where it lives, what it does for a living, or what credentials or degree it has to be judge, jury, and authority on everyone's life but "it's" own. "It's" only purpose thus far has been to stir trouble and attack everyone and everything within it's range, fair game or not. Flag the current poll to get our attention back to the previous poll? Yeah, I looked and so will most who participated in this poll, but I'm hoping everyone will ignore the nonsense resist commenting and let W(v)allender and his, her, or it's petty, nonsensical, psychobabble rest. Bam Bam 06/01/08 10:55am Our sick societal woes? Vallender we're not the only ones with these social issues. Please don't make sound as though, whatever goes on in the rest of the world is the fault of the American's inability to control gun crime. America continually strives to seek a balance between our Constitution and the laws that govern us. Vallender 06/01/08 9:49am As much as it pains me to read your chilling stories, Pat & Amanda, i still think it is a crying shame that the very society within perhaps the "greatest nation in the world" in the modern age, is completely HELPLESS in trying to solve its own domestic problems. And im actually being rather selfish here, because my DEEPEST worry is that these SICK societal trends will eventually spread themselves all around the globe, to other more-innocent cultures & countries! But nevertheless, thanks for sharing your personal stories. :-) Nick 05/30/08 1:48pm "We got 25 rifles, just to keep the population down..." Neil Young Revolution Blues from On the Beach LP Amanda 05/29/08 3:13pm You can't get rid of them all..just like you can't get rid of all the drugs and you can't get rid of all the alcohol .You try that, people will just make them. My roommate can make her own bullets..I am sure making a gun would not be hard to figure out at all. People will continue to rob and rape and steal and all of that until, not we take away the gun or the knife, but we get rid of the guilty. I don't know when people are going to stop blaming an object and start wanting tougher laws..wanting them enough to get out, write letters and get lobbiests for them, to put a serious crunch on criminals, how they are treated, what penalties they pay and whether they can ever enter free society again. I am all for major work farms, chain gangs ( for the lesser violent ones..give them something to do besides lift weights and sell drugs in the PEN), Isolating by putting the more hardened and violent ones on a remote island with enough materials to make shelter and grow some food..and then leave them there. Bam Bam 05/29/08 2:21pm What if we got rid of all guns, bombs and weapons in general. What's a robber gonna do, rob you with sticks and stones? I realize there are other methods, but, what's it gonna take to get some PEACE. Wendy. 05/29/08 8:51am These are the last day and time are hard for everyone. the truth is that things will not get better they will only get worse until god put his hand in things. people will find another way to be violent toward each other no matter how many guns are banned. Amanda 05/29/08 4:55am All very true Pat. As time goes on things and people get more violent. We can sit and blame it on parenting all we want, but its water under the bridge now..they are how they are. Too..some can grow up in good homes and turn out just as rotten. As far as the gun ban goes..it won't pass due to our constitution. Peace was never gained either by laying ones head on the chopping block or by rolling over and playing dead. I know many idealists out there cream at that but it is true..with very few exceptions and I do not see Ghandi around anywhere. Someone made the comment about people not needing rifles in large cities. rediculous. What about people who hunt still? Where are the supposed to keep their hunting rifles? Thats what a lot of people don't get. People still hunt and not all live in the country. People still shoot for sport..hand guns and rifles. The skeet shoot, hunt, shoot at target ranges. It's for enjoyment. No, theres nothing wrong with that any more then there is anything wrong with playing darts or bowling. Why pass laws that takes away from people a source of pleasure and entertainment? And before someone comes out with 'you shouldn't like to do that, those are weapon' comments I would ask that person who the hell gave you the right to dictate to others what they 'should like and should not like?' My roommate hunts, you should see her bathroom. Two gun racks fully loaded down with rifles and yes, they are all loaded. My other roommate has her own weapons. I don't mind telling you..it's a house full of women here..you really think we are going to sit around and not protect ourselves? How stupid is that? believe me, the person coming in there will have no issue killing any one of us to get what they want. I personally believe in an even playing field. Pat 05/28/08 11:59am Things are changing faster and faster for kids. Stuff still went on when I was a kid, but it wasn't glorified like it is now. It started changing in the 60's. A lot of kids now at seven know way more about life than I did at nine. True, Paula, there is not enough morals in the world now. How can kids keep their innocence, when so much is in their faces. Some parents might protect their kids at home,(not the ones that let them have those horrible video games to play and let them watch and hear things they shouldn't). They see and hear a lot from other kids in school, if they stay all night with someone you totally trust and then they get to watch T.V. shows or movies or listen to music that they are not allowed to listen to at home. One of the biggest ways for kids to lose their innocence is on the school buses, look at the fighting on them and you can just imagine the filth that the older kids talk about in front of other kids that don't talk that way. There was no way that went on when I was a kid. I think I saw maybe 3 fights in all the school years that I rode a bus. Bullies in school are more crueler. Peer pressure is much more now than what it was in the 70's and 80's and even in the 90's. I also believe that more and more abuse is going on with kids now. Kids are 100% more violent than ever before, a lot of kids are spoiled to where it doesn't matter what they want they get it, even if it is not good for them. Kids are being de-sensitized for the future. Now let me tell you, I knew about abuse because my dad was VERY abusive mentally and physically with my mom, my brothers and me, but my sister really didn't get abused. BUT it still affected her the same way just living in it and watching it and hearing it. My mom and my brothers got the brunt of the abuse though. The law stayed out of domestic violence when my mom was in it, she left him in 1978 or 1979. He always carried a gun on him...I won't go into that until maybe another time. Anyway, the point I am trying to make...look how many kids today rape and kill and abuse other kids and older people and animals, some even their own parents. Look how many teens and little kids bring guns to school...the guns should be locked away tight, not just in a cabinet with glass doors. Kids in the western states are just as violent with weapons as kids in the midwest and eastern states(look at Columbine High). It is on its way to becoming a worldwide problem. It is up to parents to teach their kids at home with love and kindness and much patience and respect and lots of family quality time(talk, talk and more talk). It is up to the schools to have tough rules on bullies, no matter how popular they think they are. If a kid is different, that is no excuse to bully them. There is way too much about sex or sexual innuendos that kids hear or see in all areas of the media. What does that say about this next generation of future adults? More violence...unless more kids are raised better than all the ones that are going to be like the criminals of now. Ed 05/28/08 11:37am I have read all the comments (and some the novels listed here), and the fact of the matter is Americans have the right to own guns. I don't want to ever lose that right. Ok to satisfy the liberals when you buy a gun they can do a background check on you, but what about the young fools in gangs or other criminals who get them illegally, they will not have a background check. So it does not matter what you do they will always find a way to get guns. So take you heads out of your Asses and stop trying to take guns away from the hardworking, law abiding American to satisfy the braindead liberals!!!! What needs to be done is round up the criminals give them manditory prision time (no less then 10 years) and for the real bad rapist, murderer, child molestor and stalker. Take them out back of the court room and shoot them between the eyes. Matter closed and we won't have repeat offenders. Michelle 05/28/08 10:55am Those statistics may say that guns are not the worst cause of premature death but that does not by any means say to me that there isn't a problem with them. I don't care, when kids are able to handle DEADLY WEAPONS, when gangsters can't aim to kill those who 'have it coming' and innocent people die instead(sometimes while sitting in their homes), when a country has a shadow hanging on it that neighbors to the North shudder to imagine occuring here... THERE IS A BETTER WAY. Not saying you can't own a stupid weapon, but at the VERY LEAST, must be willing to consider alterations to a system which permits these atrocious events. And, nowhere is perfect, and we are not either up North. So that's all. Peace! Amanda 05/27/08 9:15pm Hell more people die in preventable car accidents then gun incidents every year. Guns are not the #1 killer here in the states by any means. As a matter of fact more people die in at home related accidents then from guns every year. Pat 05/27/08 2:23pm Nick, I understand what you are saying, but over 100,000 people die from hospital accidents each year. That is more than guns and car accidents. Amanda 05/27/08 12:53pm Pat thank you for saying that and I understand where you are coming from. Our system is a revolving door..and until you really get your head around the fact that they let the 'non-violent' criminal out and just what that means you really don't understand. What that means is that molesters are NOT considered violent. Too, they go on 'good behavior'. They would much rather keep a guy that sold pot in prison for every day of ten years then the person who raped four women or the person who molested 13 kids. I agree that the punishment should fit the crime. People commit more crime now for a couple of different reasons. One major reason is there is no real consequences. A rapist knows that IF he is caught, he may do 18 months and all he has to do is get out, be good for a couple of months and then disappear on to new hunting grounds. Oh sure he may get caught...but how many women does he rape between that time. As far as murder goes, well they pick that apart really. Even then again, the sentence is reduced due to over crowding. Until our country begins to really use the death penalty again and make life tougher for these criminals the common man or woman has two choices..don't be armed and hope like hell you never have anything happen..or be armed and hope like hell you don't have anything happen. I in all honesty am all for chain gangs, isolated work farms and factories..etc. I am all for keeping those that hurt others isolated for the duration of their lives out of the general populace. I don't think some sorts of criminals are deserving a second chance. That may sound hard, but you know hard is exactly what it takes. Softness and giving criminals chances is what has gotten this nation so violent. Too, when it comes down to it I am all for taking the life of someone who would take mine. That becomes pure survival. You are not going to hurt me and that is final. I don't care what you went through.....its no excuse at all. Why? Well how many others went through being molested, like I did, and yet never even thought of molesting their or another's child? Thats just bull as far as I am concerned. Pat 05/27/08 12:02pm Wallander, I totally understand what you are saying. Maybe 150-200 years from now, it will be that way worldwide, but the fact is...it isn't now. There are many innocent people in the world that go through horrible things everyday because of vicious criminals. I will say first of all, men are being found innocent now, that have spent 15-25 years in prison, due to DNA testing. The victims were 100% sure, but through DNA testing, they were wrong. When something vicious is happening to someone, many times, they don't see the face and if they do, they are still in shock and see things differently. I was raped, but that wasn't all that happened. I cried and screamed and fought and prayed out loud. For all that I was put through, I didn't want to see the face. By fighting back, I was put through much more, I could have just as easily been a "statistic". I never want to see this "human". I probably wouldn't know him if I was face to face with him. But this happened 25 years ago in the state I moved from. I was so ashamed and afraid that it was my fault, that I didn't go to the hospital and report it. Trust me when I tell you that every single day females are being raped and most go unreported. For 10 years, I would go get HIV/AIDS tested to make sure I didn't get it. Thank the Great Spirit, I am still clean. Also, after this happened to me, I haven't had sex again. I learned to deal with it my own way, even though I can't(not won't)forgive. Then my daughter was date raped at 14, she changed, and for a year she didn't tell me what happened. I thought she was getting rebellious and ditching school, because she was a teenager(some do that). She was an honor roll student. Do you know that I had no idea that she had been date raped, that was the farthest thing from my mind, I can't even explain the guilt I still feel for that. It breaks my heart this second. I could kill this SOB in a heartbeat. He took my baby's innocence in a very painful, demeaning way. One thing I will say though, she had plenty of friends that took care of that punk. By the way, he was a preacher's son. Wallander, I still understand what you are saying, but unless you or a family member went through this, you really don't know what you would do. Maybe you could forgive and if you could that is more than wonderful. I know I have gotten on here and lots of times talked about peace and love and all the wonderful things that we should all feel. I do feel this way, until I think on all this that happened (and not even considering giving up weapons) I have to say, I would kill to defend me and mine. I know that is harsh, but until our justice system is for the innocent and not for the criminals, people will many times have to defend themselves from murder, rape, brutal beatings, etc. The kids can't even defend themselves against a child molester, so who will? Not our justice system, when the prisons are too over-run, do you know who the first are that are let free? The rapists and pedophiles. Why? Where is the justice in this? Usually when they are let out, the next time they do something, they murder also. One of the two vets that we use for our animals lost a young woman this way. He was sent to prison for raping a girl, then let out later to break-in to the vet's office and was proably looking for drugs. She opened up at 5:00 a.m. and walked in on him, he brutally beat her, raped her, then killed her. The other girl came in around 7:00 and found her this way. She left a little son and husband and parents and other family and friends. I don't think her husband could face him without killing him. My daughter and I had talked to her many times. Some "humans" never change and never feel remorse. Like Amanda said, it is second nature to these "things". There are actually some crimes that only Jesus would forgive(well, there are some people that do confront the criminal and forgive and out of the thousands of vicious criminals there are probably a handful that do feel remorse and guilt for what they did, but that is just a handful). Until the punishment fits the crime, these things will always happen. It is happening at a faster rate now also. This nation will have a fight on it's hands if people are forced to give their weapons up, just so the criminals will have an easier time at using theirs. Amanda 05/26/08 9:54pm Edward I completely agree. There are thousands, hundreds of thousands of heinous crimes committed every year here. many times to a gun in the victims hands could have saved them. I feel so long as you check out via the background checks then fine, you can have a gun..after all your track record shows whether or not you should have one. Edward 05/26/08 1:59pm Its very simple if you want to put your life in someone hands other than your own you take the chance a very good chance that they meaning the police will be there but not in time to save you because things happen in seconds and waiting for 911 to save you from criminal attack does not happen in real life ,you need protection right at that moment and a gun is your best bet to survive,if you dont agree then its your life but dont tell those of us that dont agree with that path to go the way you choose and force legislation to take away our right to self defense ,if you choose to die instead of fighting to live that is your choice, so far we still have the right to keep and bear arms and a moral right to protect ourselves and our families,its just common sense. people dont believe in it until they almost get killed,its a tragedy to think you should die for the ignorance of others that dont believe in self defense. Amanda 05/25/08 9:18pm So Wallander you aren't even a citizen here. I think it is high time that you bowed out. Sorry to say but if you don't live here then...well I guess it really doesn't affect you. So..lets try it your way.Here is a scenario for you: I case your house for a few weeks to watch when you come and go. I know every habit you have in regards to when you go to bed, whether or not you have a security system, what lights you leave on..I may have figured out the distance and parameters of any motion lights you may have. Lets say I know you have a really big dog. Here is what happens; I get in through what ever spot I feel is most vulnerable. Your dog comes at me and I feed him some laced peanut butter..maybe it has some anti freeze in it or something else to kill him. Now I proceed to your kids rooms..lets just say you have two. I kill them, maybe reach over and snap their necks while they sleep..totally soundless, I make my way to your room..bash your head in and then ( lets say your married) I begin to rape your wife repeatedly. Lets say just because I am a real sadist, I don't kill you, but instead make sure that I only knock you out..lets say I make you watch me do everything to your wife and you are totally powerless to move. Lets say I let you two live, knowing I killed your kids and raped your wife. Now, you can call the police but now it is too late, your children are just as dead. Your wife is just as raped and you..well you may or may not have some form of brain damage if I didn't hit you just right..but you get to live with the horror of it. Lets see the other scenario..I come in..I may get to your kids, but upon I entering your room and trying to hit you, you warn me first..you tell me you have a gun and I see it..I keep coming anyway and you shoot me. True, your kids and dog may be dead..but think about what you and your wife don't have to live with...and think about the fact that this person will not get the chance to do it again. I know what I wrote is a bit graphic...but lets face it there are those animals out there like that. They do it for fun..they like it..Jeffrey Dahlmer ate his victims... Ted Bundy anyone?..no reason for him to do that..just plain bad seed. He killed a fourteen year old boy...ate him. I am sorry but I do not feel people such as that need to be fed, housed, clothed and kept up with the money WE as AMERICANS pay in taxes. A bullet is much cheaper and in many ways much kinder. Wallander 05/25/08 12:57pm The simple formula for a society to wither away & die, is for its citizens to begin ignoring their own conscience & basic feelings, and by chosing to pick up arms to defend themselves, they are automatically accepting the conditions & rules of MEANINGLESS random violence, set by the outlaws themselves. Once a society reaches this point, there is no turning back because it will just go in a ring of 'vicious cycle'...and the random meaninglessness of all these events will only intensify & increase, and they will eventually spread themselves to every single layer & position within the society. Not only the 'gun culture' will get out of control at some point, so will every other milieu & culture existing in the fabrics of the society. The interesting thing about America is that EVERYTHING has become 'personalized' to such a degree, that when someone tries to point out the OVERALL-VIEW of everything(& the way things evolve & develope themselves) he will either get ignored, or will be smothered to the ground because everyone is capable of ONLY seeing things thru his/her own personalized tunnel-vision. I'm NOT pointing my fingers at anyone because i KNOW i probably would not have done it any differently, had i been born & raised in the States. I just think it's always worth looking into, when someone else with a different view, offers you the knowledge of how things look from the outside, which you did/could not see yourself. Amanda 05/25/08 12:36pm Another thing about gun violence; it is interesting to note that areas of the USA where hunting is the norm you have virtually NO gun violence or accidents. Why?? Because at very young ages children are taught what a gun is, what it is for and how you use it, how to take care of it. They are shown first hand what it can do and what dead is. Therefor they have impressed upon them at an early age RESPECT for a weapon. As far as criminals being killed in the commission of a crime..I don't consider the human race any worse for that..they got what they asked for. Amanda 05/25/08 9:15am Wallender grow up. I assure you I am neither miserable nor am I expecting the world to bow down to me. My ENTIRE point is very simple. If you or anyone else comes up on me in an attempt to do ANY form of harm to me your life is forfeit. No one will walk in my house as they have no business there..you have no business laying your hands upon my person..my belongings are mine and I worked for them...not you. You want to come in and help yourself well there are consequences to deal with. . You talk about how you KNOW these criminals really feel guilt..sorry but in actually studying them most don't. They like what they do..enjoy it. Much like the lion killing a Gazelle..it is their nature to do that. You really need to grow up as I just said. You may not feel any need to protect your home or person or loved ones from the predators out there but that doesn't mean that no one else does or that they should not. Who has the right to hold me or anyone else up to your personal measuring stick and say 'if you fall below this line you are a horrible person'. As a matter of fact I have noticed over the years that people such as yourself that want to preach tolerance are about the most INTOLERANT people on the planet. You don't give anyone else any room for themselves and you just have to insist your way is the only way. Screw that . So long as I have the right I will keep and bear arms. I will continue protect myself and those in my household from anyone who would hurt us. That not only is my legal right. If you don't like it then don't own a gun or better still move to a country that has a gun ban. You don't have to be here you know and I am certain the USA will not miss you in the slightest. Bam Bam 05/25/08 7:09am I should change my name to Ban Ban..lol. Michelle, I lived in Canada for three years and your right there's really no gun issues. However, Machette's are an issue in gang related incidents it seems and serial killers seem to becoming common way up in the North. Like the one that is running loose in Edmonton killing hookers; I think they may have just found him though after about 10-years of looking. But, we have that everywhere it seems, look at the green river guy. What is sick SOB! I think asking if they should be banned in Major cities only is stupid...they'll just go and buy it in smaller cities. Your only re-arranging crime and selling to the highest bidder. All gun crimes should get mandatory jail time WITH NO PLEA BARGAINS. It shouldn't matter what crime they committed madatory 10-Years at least hard labor! Criminals deal with criminals daily..simply sending them to jail to deal with the same people they've always been dealing with and giving them three free meals a day with room and board. I'm sorry that is BS. Parents also need to be held accountable to some degree, but, that is a whale of an issue. Char 05/25/08 1:13am Ok so what ever happen to the right to bear arms Victor 05/25/08 12:50am You people write way too much for it to be something important. The only reason I´m undecided is that if I don´t have guns and the goverment has guns than they can try to control me with force.......... Write less I don´t have all day and neither do you. Wallander 05/24/08 1:28pm Amanda, i dont even think your personal horror stories would be of any significance for the shrinks or the psychiatrists, you poor miserable soul. You're just too wrapped up in your own misery, that you think the rest of the world has to bow down to all your whims & opinions based on personal experiences. The world doesnt work that way. The same book that you refer to, also says "live by the sword, and die by the sword"! Amanda 05/24/08 11:35am Wallander give it up. No one CARES if they want forgiveness..thats the issue is hurry up and FORGIVE!! Damn even the bible had laws that definitely included the defense of ones self, family and home.. it even supported the death penalty.. As far as how I sound..funny you seem to be the only one who thinks so. I am telling it like it is so don't pretend you know all about it. If you have not endured these things then quite frankly your opinion is nothing more than idle prattling of a dreamers and idealists mill. In other words you are way out of your ball field. Wallander 05/24/08 10:26am Amanda, i may not understand a lot of things you claim to know -- and btw you almost sound as if you're awefully proud of this personal knowledge of yours -- but what i KNOW is that all these molesters, rapists, killers, are SUCKERS for some kind of FORGIVENESS. They may not show it to anyone, but deep down inside they DESPERATELY yearn to be accepted & forgiven for their deeds. And it is this VERY need in them that needs to be exploited, in order to get them to realize the gravity of their horrible actions! But EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY it is the victims such as yourself, who need to be HEALED from the horrible wounds that you've been carrying around with you for so long, in your life. You seem to be so fixated on getting me to understand just exactly how PAINFUL an ordeal you've had to go thru, that it's making you blind to the things im trying to say here; these ppl HAVE TO KNOW just what they've caused you & the rest of the innocent victims -- not I btw -- and it is thru such process that the victims will be able to re-claim their own souls, while the guilty criminal will finally be able to feel the weight of his own guilt for the rest of his life. It is NOT you who should be carrying those feelings around, it is THEM! And plz save me from the kind of brain-dead fascistic way of thinking, that happens to exist in the islamic fundamentalistic societies. I agree, our western civilization has LONG lost its path towards a prosperous & healthy society(ies) -- that is why we see crimes/misdeeds of this nature only in our part of the world -- but there is still hope, as long as we are committed to healing the mental & spiritual health of the ppl who need it! Your thirst for blood & revenge had caused you to lose sight of what is supposed to be a healthy society. And you keep trying to point out just what kind of a naive & soft-hearted ding-dong i am, while i've been trying to point out to you that there needs to be a CLEAR distinction between the criminal underworld(incl. child molestes) and the society itself, and the true strength of a good society is measured by its ability to stay on-course despite the existence of a few thousand hopeless individuals whose lives have gone astray. In any case, i personally hope that this appearant social DISEASE does not spread itself overseas some day...although i have to confess that i feel overwhelmed by a sense of pessimism right now! :-( Amanda 05/24/08 10:18am I know how that feels. I had a man break in on me and my daughter ten years ago or better. I have no idea who he was at all..never saw him before or after. If it wasn't for the .25 semi automatic I had I do not know what he would have done to us. I don't want to know..point is..he didn't get to do a damn thing. It saved both of us from who knows what really. I know he wasn't there to rob me, I didn't have anything to take and too...he knew we were there and came right through the door..so I think it is safe to say more likely rape was the intent. Lady Willow 05/24/08 9:45am Guns should not be banned. My dad just had to buy my mother a pump action shot gun, (mind you, refered by a cop) to use if he isnt home, because there has been someone, attempting to break into their house for the for the last 2 weeks. last night the door was almost pryed open. All comes down to morals, values, and the raiseing of your children. I agree with Paula Totally!! Jennifer 05/24/08 7:13am Hey Bam Bam, re: afraid to read all that stuff Nick posted...he simply thought this discussion needed some insight. So you're afraid to read because you might learn something? Must have been tough getting kicked out of high school... Amanda 05/23/08 10:44pm Wallander you could not be further from the truth if you flew to the moon. You don't know what the hell you're talking about at all. Obviously it is high time to stop with the off the hip psychoanalysis and by the way...please learn what the world molestation means. Until then why not keep your delusional ideals to yourself. Michelle 05/23/08 9:08pm Didn't read the whole discussion as it seems very lengthly... so, maybe my point has already been made. That said, I come from Canada where thankfully guns don't seem to be such an issue. So, uh, rifles are used to kill animals like large game, of which there are usually none in large cities. So that pretty much eliminates the need for them unless you wanna shoot people. And handguns, in my opinion, are pretty useless unless you wanna shoot people, so, having them in large cities pretty much dictates what's gonna happen... Man whoever decides these discussion topics sure is good at stirrin the pot, hey? A great debate going on in my city right now is wether or not smokers should be cut off of welfare. Wallander 05/23/08 7:44pm In short the discussion devided itself into 2 grps., the 1st grp is still discussing whether banning guns would be a good idea, or not, while the other grp is discussing whether there should be a swift & quick death penalty for the WORST category of criminals related to murder, child sexual abuse, rape, OR longer prison sentences plus other psychologically-related punishments. Bam Bam 05/23/08 7:31pm If anyone actually reads all that I want a show of hands~ I just checked in to see what was going on and I am just scared to get caught up with all this reading. Nick 05/23/08 7:18pm A FAREWELL TO ARMS The Solution to Gun Violence in America Maryland Attorney General’s Special Report J. Joseph Curran, Jr., Attorney General October 20, 1999 2 EXECUTIVE SUMMARY Athree-year old in Baltimore City kills himself with the handgun he finds under a mattress. A mother of two is shot in Prince George’s County hanging curtains in her window. A Park Heights pastor is gunned down in a botched robbery outside his home. A stray bullet from a drug dispute fells a thirteen-year old girl outside her Carrollton Ridge rowhouse, making her the fifth to die in the neighborhood in four months. How violent must it get before we demand an end? How many more anguished parents must bury their children before we deal with gun violence head on, instead of taking the small, timid measures which have constituted “gun control” for the past quarter century? How many tragedies of premature death and disabling injury must we endure before we realize we need to think about gun violence in a different way? Gun violence is not just about law enforcement. Children dying in a school cafeteria, an elderly man taking his own life with a handgun, an eightyear old shooting his sister - in these tragedies we must begin to recognize the multi-dimensional. Gun violence is about law enforcement, but it is also a crisis of public health and consumer protection. We have thus far attempted only to fix the law enforcement piece, e.g. prohibiting convicted felons from owning guns, doing background checks on some gun buyers. Yet because our problem is more complex, this one-dimensional approach dooms us to failure. Until we recognize this truth, we will not be able to fashion the solutions that will finally end our nightmare. We are overrun with guns. Despite waiting periods, one-gun-a-month laws, and other faltering attempts to stem the flow, we are hemorrhaging guns into our streets, schools and homes. In a country of about 270 million people, there are over 200 million guns - 65-70 million of which are handguns - and these numbers are climbing. Forty-four million Americans - or 25% of all adults and 38% of American households - possess at least one gun. Yet despite the ever-increasing number of guns in circulation, the number of Americans choosing to own a firearm is declining. Fewer and fewer of us own more and more guns. Only 16% of Americans own a handgun; five out of six of us do not. Thus, there are two critical questions we must ask ourselves. First, what do we pay to indulge the minority among us who accumulate firearms? In other words, what is the cost of gun k Gun violence is about law enforcement, but it is also a crisis of public health and consumer protection. k In Maryland, more people die from firearms than motor vehicle accidents - well over 700 a year. 3 ownership in America? The answer lies in our daily headlines, in the quiet mourning for lives lost, and in the economic toll of these recurring tragedies. The costs are at once incalculable and astronomical. First and foremost, we pay in deaths. Over 35,000 Americans die from firearms every year - about 100 deaths a day. Firearm injuries have doubled since 1962 and are now the eighth leading cause of death. In Maryland, more people die from firearms than motor vehicle accidents - well over 700 a year. Handguns are responsible for the vast majority of these fatalities. The U.S. gun homicide rate for children under 15 years old is sixteen times higher than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. In 1996, 104 Maryland children under age 19 died from firearm homicide or suicide. In addition, for every firearm death in Maryland and nationwide, nearly three people suffer non-fatal firearm injuries. Contrary to popular perception, most gun death in America is not crime-related. Suicides, which have doubled over the past few decades because of greater access to firearms, represent 54% of all firearm deaths. Unintentional shootings constitute 3- 4%. Homicides represent 41%, and most of these deaths occur among family members or acquaintances. This breakdown underscores the multi-faceted nature of gun violence. Law enforcement measures can address only the relatively small percentage of deaths represented by homicides outside the context of family violence. If we were also to institute public health and consumer protection measures, we could begin to prevent both the 58% of deaths represented by suicides and unintentional shootings, and the substantial percentage of homicides occurring among family and friends. In addition to death and injury, we also pay in economic terms. The price of gun ownership is not measured only by the human costs of cutting short a child’s life or consigning a teenager forever to a hospital bed. Firearm death and injury impose economic burdens, i.e., the costs of medical care, lost productivity and quality of life, police and emergency services, and criminal justice resources. Medical care alone costs between $2.3 and $4 billion annually, of which at least 67% is borne by the public through elevated insurance premiums and higher taxes. Estimates of additional direct and indirect costs range from $20 to $112 billion annually. Based on conservative estimates, Marylanders pay more than $90 million a year in lifetime medical costs alone for firearm injury and deaths. Those are the facts. A declining minority of Americans own an everincreasing number of guns. Yet all pay the consequences, as we watch children k Based on conservative estimates, Marylanders pay more than $90 million a year in lifetime medical costs alone for firearm injury and deaths. 4 die in our streets and we shoulder the increasing costs of that carnage. As this tragedy has unfolded, how has the gun industry responded? It has refused to make guns safer. It has failed to market and distribute its products in a way calculated to keep guns out of the hands of children and criminals. It has reacted to a saturated market by creating new products with greater killing power and by attempting to expand its market to women and children. Unlike many consumer products, guns can last for decades. With fewer Americans wanting to own a gun, the industry has contrived reasons to buy new guns. Instead of using the need for innovation to produce safer guns, it has opted to develop guns with increased lethality. As one scholar writes, “Lethality is the nicotine of the gun industry.” The industry has created the desire to buy “better” guns by putting on the market assault-style weapons and firearms with greater ammunition capacity, higher firepower, or increased concealability. If having the capacity to kill one person is good, being able to kill 30 people without reloading is even better. The industry has also marketed its innovative new products aggressively to expand its market, targeting women and children. The freedom the gun industry enjoys to pursue these strategies has no parallel. Unlike virtually every other consumer product, from refrigerators to toothpaste, guns are exempted from the jurisdiction of the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Instead, the federal government’s power over firearms and ammunition is limited essentially to issuing licenses and collecting taxes. We would not tolerate for a moment a situation in which there were no safety regulation of automobiles. We take for granted the wisdom of the regulation that makes power lawnmowers safer. No one regrets the lives saved every year since safety standards made butane cigarette lighters child-resistant. Yet guns, an inherently dangerous product, are free from health and safety regulation. Increasing the killing power of firearms has been the gun industry’s reaction to declining gun ownership and bloodletting across America. What, then, should be our response? When a man killed 16 children and a teacher with four handguns at Dunblane Primary School in Scotland in 1997, Britain banned all handguns. When a man gunned down 35 people with a variety of assault weapons in Australia in 1996, that country banned all automatic and semi-automatic weapons and pump-action shotguns. k Unlike virtually every other consumer product, from refrigerators to toothpaste, guns are exempted from the jurisdiction of the Consumer Product Safety Commission. 5 Now it is our turn. Two teens massacre 12 children and a teacher at Columbine High School in Colorado. A disgruntled day trader in Atlanta goes on a shooting spree leaving nine people dead and 13 wounded. A man guns down 8 teens and adults celebrating a religious holiday in the sanctuary of a church; even our institutions of faith are no longer inviolate. So should we wrangle for months over whether background checks at gun shows make sense? Should we fight in Congress and state legislatures for a few more of the modest proposals that mean gun control in this country and then declare victory? How long do we wait for a genuine solution? Until 25 children are killed on a playground? Or maybe 35? Or 100? No. The time is now. We must get serious - no more band-aids, no more excuses. The moral fiber of our society will be measured by our response. The problem is not just guns in the wrong hands or a failure to enforce laws already on the books. Yes, we should use all the tools at our disposal to prevent crime. Yet this is about more than crime. It is a public health crisis - an epidemic of violent yet preventable death. Modest measures that keep guns away from criminals, together with all the punishment a civilized society can impose, will never stop all the dying. Getting serious means posing the second critical question: Are the terrible costs that flow from handgun violence worth the benefits? In other words, is the price we pay for indulging the minority who own handguns really worth it? This cost-benefit analysis leads to one answer only - no. The costs overwhelm the benefits. The common justification for widespread civilian gun ownership is two-fold: the hunting and shooting sports, and self-defense. Neither provides justification for the millions of handguns circulating in our neighborhoods. Hunters and sports shooters do not generally use handguns, and the notion that we are safer with guns in our homes to defend ourselves is false. Study after study shows that guns are rarely used successfully in self-defense, and the chance of a family member dying from a firearm-related injury is far greater in homes with guns. For me, therefore, the answer is easy. I have added up the costs, and they outweigh the benefits. As a grandfather, I am ready to say enough children have died. In short, I believe that we should no longer allow unrestricted handgun ownership. More effective laws and vigilant enforcement can reduce criminal firearm injury. Increased safety and child-proofing features on handguns can prevent unintentional shootings. Personalized guns can prevent teen suicides and injury from stolen guns. Yet even all these measures would still leave untouched thousands of preventable handgun injuries and deaths every year. We would still be left mourning the multitude of deaths and disabling injury which result from the adult suicide attempts and domestic assaults k Is the price we pay for indulging the minority who own handguns really worth it? 6 which occur in homes across America every day. Thus, our public policy goal should be to restrict the sale and possession of all handguns to those who can demonstrate a legitimate law enforcement purpose or can guarantee that the use of such guns will be limited to participation in a regulated sporting activity. Handgun ownership that advances reasonable law enforcement purposes must be permitted. Individuals with a professional need to have a licensed gun - law enforcement officers, gun collectors, some business owners and certain other professional groups - will continue to keep handguns on business premises or for use on the job. The rest of us, however, must give them up. The cost has simply become too great. Wallander 05/23/08 3:40pm In essence, the basic point of such lengthy processes is to make the criminal, get a TRUE grasp of the feeling of TOTAL ABANDONMENT. Wallander 05/23/08 3:17pm First off to Amanda. It seems/sounds to me that you were married to a child-predator(if im wrong then plz do correct me?). This is somewhat of a different situation, and i dont believe meeting sessions between ex-partners would be very productive in such cases. S/he should instead be meeting with other groups of victims, completely un-related to his/her own crimes. And in these sessions s/he has to be gradually brought to a 'personal confession' about his/her own misdeeds. And this means that YOU & your daughter would have to be sitting in sessions with OTHER child-predators UN-BEKNOWN to you! This would give you the proper distance in order to act more objectively towards the criminal. And here is the point i feel you & the rest of the gang in here have been missing. You are NOT supposed to lose your temper in these sessions. Infact all the victim groups should be carefully instructed on how to behave in these sessions in order for the process to reach a satisfactory conclusion. What i visualize here is that by a series of cold & calculated acts of "compassion" at first, the victims would be able to gain the monster's trust. And then gradually from that point on, s/he is 'suckered' into a feeling of "comfort" in front of the victims. But little by little s/he will realize the degree of the HORROR of their crimes, when s/he realizes that these ppl are "morally superior" to him/her. By the time these sessions come to an end, the criminal will feel worse & worse about himself/herself, and when s/he finally decides to open up with a confession, the audience(victims) will show their TRUE masks, and makes the criminal realize -- with no uncertain term -- that s/he is a TRAGIC individual, and therefore the most honourable thing for him/her to do is to take his/her own miserable life. Ofcoarse as i pointed out earlier on, these things have to be coached & instructed carefully by a group of psychiatric experts. Infact there should even be placed a couple of actors among the victim group, who'd be able to steer these sessions if they somehow feel the need to re-take control of the session. And after every single session, the whole group would be discussing the day's events, and what strategies would be needed for the next session(s), so on & so forth... Also during these sessions, the criminal would be moved back & forth in Isolation, or placed in other hostile environments in the prison where s/he would be feeling "exposed & unprotected to the outter world", and in addition his/her food would be drugged to increase his/her dream activities(nightmares) everynight. There are litterally a MILLIONS of ways to stimulate the criminal's mind, in order to reach the desired end-result, and i just mentioned a few here, off the top of my head. Amanda 05/23/08 7:06am To me it is as simple as the fact our focus became all about protecting the criminal rights and the victim gets assaulted all over again in the court room. All of this 'confront your assailant' crap is really foolishness. I did that, told him I'd do what BLOW HIS BRAINS OUT if he ever touched me or another child again. Sure he knows and I know..but it doesn't stop him from hurting his own daughter. It doesn't mean there aren't other little girls he may get a hold of through his church. It doesn't do a damn thing to prevent him from repeating what he has done in the past. That is the crux of the matter. It kills me how some people think it is worth it to continuously put other people at risk who don't need to be. In essence what that line of thought is to me is a willful sacrificing of life for someone who has already proven to be a menace and threat to others. Used to parents played a heavy roll in their kids lives, now they really don't and can't. You can't speak a certain way to your child, you can't spank..thats abuse (what a load of crap) Etc..or you go to jail. The schools hands are pretty much tied as they have even less rights with kids than parents do. The problem is that we have allowed law makers in our lives and into our homes to tell us how they think things should be done. Anyone remember Dr. Spock..the so-called child rearing guru?? Know his son committed suicide? Apparently not much of a Guru. I feel this way about it..anyone who says we all need to rehab and forgive and all of that, please go out there and get yourself robbed, mugged raped etc so you can see from the first hand how it is. I don't wish it on you, but I really feel that before anyone tells any victim of violent crime what they need to do then the person being the advice giver needs to actually know from first hand experience what it feels like. That way you can make a suggestion from personal experience instead of what sounds goo9d and sooths your mind. Until then I say keep our guns, mine saved me and my daughter..and no, I have no issue using one if I have to. Survival of the fittest baby...believe me, they won't hesitate to do you after all. Paula 05/23/08 4:12am So we are to ban guns, kill every criminal, loose freedom of speech, & change or abolish the constitution. Why don't we send all the criminals off to an island somewhere. . . Oh wait. Somebody already did that. Why not look at the root of the problem? Where does the idiot with the gun or the rapist come from? Don't put anything off on the legal system or the constitution. There is basically nothing wrong with either, no excuses - Both are used and abused on a daily basis. Not just a fact of life in the states, but abuse of law and power have in the past, and currently exist everywhere. As society stands I believe stricter punishment for crime is necessary, but I also believe that society as a whole could be doing a lot to prevent what is happening out there. Has anyone taken a good look at the "me generation" lately? Has anyone thought about how children have changed in the past 15 - 20 years? A million and one factors have contributed to our children growing old and loosing their naivety by what? Age 10, maybe 13? Don't get me wrong, there is not a bad child out there. Kids are basically good. Most will turn out to be amazing adults. It's the minority (which is growing every day) and it is their learned behaviors that are appalling. These kids have no values, no morals, absolutely no sense of what is right or what is wrong. The school systems asks us to blend mores and values in with lesson plans. Good idea, but where are the parents? Why don't the parents give these kids some kind of idea as to what is acceptable behavior and what is not? These kids are not held responsible for their own education, their teacher is (a sad but true fact), they are not raised to treat others as they wish to be treated, and are raised to look out for number one at any cost. How in the world can we expect the same minority of kids to make solid decisions or be responsible for their actions as adults? And then there is natural selection - Or is it the lack of natural selection? What I've thrown out there is just a "tip of the iceberg". By the way. We are loosing our icebergs too. Cause, effect. . . Cause, effect. . . Amanda 05/22/08 11:57pm Wallendar I would love to know exactly what actual credentials you sport to make such drastic character assessment and mental health view on my status. Bottom line I am a bit more practical then you may believe. Fact, the chances of certain criminals being repeat offenders is far greater than the odds they won't. That means that there are untold numbers out there..beiung beaten or raped or murdered or robbed by someone who has already been to prison a couple of times and guess what...they LIKE what they do!!! If they don't they are hopelessly obsessed with what ever it is they do. Let's see..how many are in therapy now due to many Priests??? Oh I guess adding insult to injury by holding the victims to a far greater standard then the perp is just what is supposed to be done. Tell me, you are such an expert on moving on..whoever did what to you personally that you can say what a person needs to do and should do. I am very interested to know just what sort of personal thing did you go through to be able to say what needs to be done and by whom. Felicia 05/22/08 11:37pm Drugs are not legal. People still get them. People who want guns will get guns, criminals or not. Society must stay armed against governments. The first thing Hitler did was to outsaw & sieze citizens arms. Disarming immediately makes the target easy. Ms 611 05/22/08 8:40pm Ban guns??? Only suckas who want to die will go for banning guns!!! Nick 05/22/08 7:48pm Wake up folks. THE US has a major problem & unless theire's some kind of control and ban of handguns, rifles etc, the problem is only going to get worse. When the US was allegedly at war with North Vietnam (it was an undeclared war, by the way) they dropped more bombs on North Vietnam than all the bombs dropped in WWII. Now during those same years, say 1964-19 72/73, more Americans died from handguns than the soldiers who were duped into fighting an undeclared war in the first place. Almost 59,000 Americans lost their lives during the Vietnam war yet there were more gun deaths in the US during those same years... who profited? the gun and ammo dealers & manufacturers? Who lost ? Besides the families of loved ones, American public with medical costs etc. It would be interesting to note the death toll in the US during the two so-called Iraqi wars and the death toll at home. Only the US tolerates and encourages such nonsense. Yes by all means punish the criminals severely but punish the dealers and manufacturers who profit from spreading fear and paranoia. Wallander 05/22/08 7:27pm Btw my previous post was not directed to you mavrickmuse. I was discussing something slightly different with the other gang in here, and i saw your post only after i finished submitting mine. This however doesnt mean that i dont disagree with your way of thinking regarding private gun ownership, but on the other hand i also recognize the fact that life in the States has pretty much deteriorated into a living hell, for the average Americans. It is a crying shame that this once glorious land, has litterally become a suburbian war-zone today. I certainly dont envy the life of Americans, and i can ONLY hope and pray to God that this kind of lifestyle does NOT enter into our society here in Europe. Wallander 05/22/08 6:58pm Not only does what you 2 suggest reek of cynicism, hatred, biggotry, and blind thirst for vengence & blood, it is a recipie for disaster against the very existence of the society that you live in. This kind of MEANINGLESS killing which only exists in the criminal underworld, should NEVER be implemented into the fabrics of the society. The society must remain as a place of SOBER thinking, reason and serenity, and should NEVER be compromised for lesser motives. Otherwise this path will only lead to its own destruction further down the road. As i mentioned earlier the #1 priority of a society with regards to heinous crimes should 1st and foremost be the proper CLOSURE for the victims of these crimes! And what better way to do this, by forcing the criminals to have to go thru countless of sessions, meeting with the victims and/or their families, so that these victims get plenty of time to gradually RISE ABOVE those scums, and at the same time to get those scums to sink deeper & deeper into their own rightful place of GUILT and self-pitty. And above all they must learn that the ppl they caused so much grief and pain, are infact ppl from the 'circle of LOVE' and higher values -- which they themselves do NOT belong to and NEVER will -- because it is in that instant that they will break down and finally GET the message that they ARE indeed scums, and that they have done something HORRIBLE and EVIL which they will one day have to answer to God. The "power of love" can be a VERY devastating and destructive force for those who chose to walk away from it, for one reason or another -- i can guarantee you that, Ladies and Gentlemen! But hey if you dont believe it, then there's basically nothing else i can/should say to try to change your beliefs. I'm afraid the only thing i can say -- in all honesty -- is that i have very little respect for that kind of thinking. Maverickmuse 05/22/08 6:50pm Whew, folks! Passions flair, eh? Let me share a tidbit of truth. I am a widow, relatively young, with children. Since my beloved husband crossed over, the loaded M1 that I sleep with has deterred theft, attempted rape, and with a reputation as an intelligent (and crazy?) woman with an excellent eye, I have maintained peace in my home. If I were to rely on something other than my rifle, they could have gotten whatever they wanted. Should I just yell and hit some S.O.B. with my frying pan? Pass laws to take away my gun collection; does anyone think I'd be dumb enough to just hand 'em all over? Hope some of you know better. There is no evidence that career and violent criminals can be reformed. On this planet, at this time, each of us must make decisions to protect our family and our homes or not. I am grateful to live in a land where I am free to protect those I love and myself in a way that has PROVEN itself to be very effective. Jeff 05/22/08 3:10pm Very well put Ed. People who commit heinous crimes like murder or rape must be dealt with swiftly and with as little expense to the tax payer as possible. This is justice, not revenge. To try and "rehabilitate" these criminals and make tax payers pick up the related expenses is an outrage. Coddling and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on these low lifes means elevating their importance above that of the victim. Ed 05/22/08 1:52pm Wallander it is nice that you want society to be all nice and cuddly, but the fact of the matter we are dealing with criminals out there that put on a good front like they care, ok maybe one or two out of a thousand, but the rest are scum and do not care about anyone or anything. I truly believe anyone who has committed Murder, Rape, Child Molestion and also Stalking someone would fail rehab, oh yes maybe it work while they are locked up and getting HBO, a degree and visits from doctors at our expense. Then the system lets them out 99 times out of a 100 they return to what they started out as scum. Then they get caught locked up again and it starts over again. End this madness and just kill them at the beginning and quit wasting our money, time and most importantly opening the wounds again and again for the victims and their families. Wallander 05/22/08 11:07am I find it comical that you actually use the label "bleeding heart" Liberals Ed. The fact of the matter is that the methods that i've suggested in my posts, are 1000 times more effective & PAINFUL than what you've been presenting so far! Also another important factor is, that the kind of approach that you, Amanda, Paula, & Pat have suggested, rather stem from a PERSONAL & emotional angle, whereas i've been trying to look at it from a SOCIETAL p.o.v. . Not saying that im necessarily right--just saying that the best way of looking at these things, is thru an OVERALL picture, and how our utmost duty as citizens, is to try & preserve the whole idea of a 'civilized society' for better or worse. Wallander 05/22/08 10:49am But i tell you what i agree with; our society needs to make a SERIOUS precedence regarding the pedophiles & child molesters! They need to know that the society will NOT tolerate any kinds of behaviour of that sort. But as i mentioned earlier, there is a need for some kind of effecient 'psychological torture' for these ppl, and if the news of these methods reach the ears of other potential pedophiles or child abusers, it will definitely have a detering effect on them. Wallander 05/22/08 10:39am I TRUELY feel sorry for the things you've had to experience Amanda, but in all honesty YOU need A LOT of help in the form of counselling & therapies, because it seems to me that unfortunately the acts of a few individuals has TOTALLY poisoned your heart & mind with hatred, violence & bloody revenge. The harsh truth is that when a person experiences such traumatic things as you have done, that person should NOT even be allowed to voice what kinds of "solutions" should be used in order to handle these individuals! This is simply due to the fact that the so-called 'civilized society' MUST NOT be pushed away from its wholesome values & virtues. If these boundries are broken, then there's NO way of telling what the society will do in 20-30 yrs.! The society MUST be able to provide the BEST kinds of help & therapies for the victims of these crimes, in terms of the BEST possible way to come to CLOSURE & to re-gain their sense of INNOCENSE, but it MUST NOT be encouraged to become some kind of a killing-machine for the masses. The society must remain as a beacon of innocense & hope for everyone,and if it loses any of these virtues & values at one point,then there is NO WAY of telling what it will be capable of doing in the future, if it comes into the hands of the wrong ppl! It is VERY important that this whole issue should be looked at thru SOCIETAL spectacles, and NOT thru a personal one. Amanda 05/22/08 10:10am Wallander you seem to be missing the point. I personally think if they are to be kept alive they should serve some purpose..hard labor for the rest of their days away from and out of society is good. Death, of course that is good too. Bottom line where you see swift harsh punishment for these offenses..you don't see too many offenses do you? Now..before you tell me I don't get it let me assure you that I do. I have been mugged,molested, held at gun point, jumped in a parking lot..just to name a few. No, the SOB's have no place in society regardless of what their sob story is. Bottom line, more people grow up in chaotic abusive homes and go through horrid ordeals. You don't see them out there as a mass doing that crap do you.. Ed 05/22/08 10:02am Thanks Amanda! I agree with you that I am also tried of the bleeding heart liberals always wanting to give all criminals a second, third, fourth etc. chance. I say NO! When they stepped over the line the first time by Murdering, Raping, Molesting children or stalking someone they have gone to far. We all know my feelings on what should be done. Take them out back and put a bullet between their eyes, end of subject... We need to focus on getting the victims an their families the help they need to deal with what had happened not give rehab to the Fxxxing criminals or a get out of jail free card. Wallander 05/22/08 10:01am You guys are missing the point! The point is that the society must NOT be dragged into the same kind of senseless killing/violence that a few thousands of hardcore criminals choose to pursue in their already-meaningless lives. The society must NOT adopt the same behaviour from a bunch of psychos & other dellusional cold-hearted murderers/rapists/pedophiles/etc.! These individuals MUST LEARN to repent for their own heinous acts, and carry their guilts for the rest of their lives, and if they cant handle it, well, they always have the suicide option. Also, the 1st priority of the society must be CLOSURE for the victims and/or the victims families, and the BEST way to achieve that is by bringing these monsters face2face with the innocent victims and/or the family members of the victims. Killing these ppl will NOT bring back your loved ones. If we're talking about pedophiles, i agree with the notion that their punishments must be much more harsh than the rest of these hardcore criminals, but it must still be some kind of an ingenius psychological way with which we can bring TOTAL SHAME into their lives & minds! They should LEARN EXACTLY what kind of pains they brought into the lives of their sex victims! Once they TRUELY learn what they have caused onto the lives of their victims, then you can be certain that they will live the rest of their lives in utter misery & shame, because their records of their crimes will remain in EVERY SINGLE computer data around the world. And should there be a few incorrigible individuals who decide to go back to their former lives, they will be brought back to the same HELL as they previously had to endure, with LONGER sentences & "therapies". But the bottom line remains; the society must NOT be dragged into the same meaningless violence, abuse, & killing that these monsters practice in their own lives! Amanda 05/22/08 7:50am Harsh words aside I have to agree with Ed. I see no reason to pay for HBO and all of that for certain types of criminals. I don't see a rapist being worthy of rehab..I don't want them as my neighbor or co-worker. I feel no pity for them or their story. Bottom line I too have been a victim of violent crimes and sexual abuse..I am not out there molesting little boys and girls or knocking over liquor stores or stealing from others to get what I want and crying about how I was abused. Too bad so sad peddle that bleeding heart tale of woe and misery elsewhere. Paula 05/22/08 6:27am Hey Ed? I really don't think "Paula said it" will be back. As for me? OrigionallyI was responding to the poll in general and then to Gomez. Kindly point your f### you's where they belong. Ed 05/22/08 5:33am Hey Paula **** YOU! I call it as I see it. I must of touched a nerve for you to single me out! What bothers you, was it when I ****ed about the ****ing idiotic Liberals, or that **** **** Michael Moore, or could it be the right to bear arms and kill murderers, rapists and child molestors and the rest put on chain gangs instead of pampering them by giving them HBO, access to free education. You know it does not matter because Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing. Paula said it. 05/21/08 3:21pm Everyone (especially Ed), re-read this! " Do yourself a favor and do not bunch large groups of people together and put one label on them. That type of sterotypical nonsence is what gives good folk like you a bad name. " It's called making sweeping generalizations, and I'm seeing a lot of that here. Which has encouraged me to spend no more time here. Thanks. Paula 05/21/08 2:14pm Gomez - Inflamatory comments will get you no where with me. Here's your facts: Yes, I know my history. Hard subject to teach if you don't. Your comment about all Americans being parinoid was absolute bovine feces. No way for you to justify a blanket statement like that. If I were to ask if you were legal or illegal in your country of residence . . . Yes, you got it. The comment on paranoia was just as ignorant as assuming you were not a citizen where you are living JUST BECAUSE YOUR LAST NAME IS GOMEZ. Do yourself a favor and do not bunch large groups of people together and put one label on them. That type of sterotypical nonsence is what gives good folk like you a bad name. Amanda 05/21/08 9:56am Pat don't give last week another thought. It's water under the bridge and really no big deal. I agree with what you say. We aren't paranoid. We do have people here that hunt..and with food costs the way they are a lot more are going to have to do that. Too, gun laws never stopped a criminal. Going face to face with a criminal..whatever..I don't care how he or she feels..and usually the guilt and remorse certainly isn't enough to stop them from doing what they do again now is it? Otherwise we would not have a revolving door in our criminal system and the repeat offender would be an enigma now wouldn't it..nice thoughts but not working..sorry. I have no idea why people think a soft hand when it comes to justice is the way to go. Whats the matter..too squeamish to take out the trash? Pat 05/21/08 6:40am Amanda, I am so sorry that happened to you. No wonder you told me that you don't have the "be nice" compunction that cripples others. If I didn't try my best to be that way, I don't know what my life would be like, I was very bitter for about 10 years. I'm sorry I got nasty with you last week. That wasn't being very nice, was it? I had something horrible that happened to me at the age of 28. My daughter was date raped at 14. She is 33 now and it still hurts her psychologically, but through a slow process she is getting better. That's one reason my mom and I made sure that we have a shot gun and two guns ready to use now. I knew she could possibly be in danger again with men jumping our fence in the middle of the day knowing she is home alone. She works at home and still doesn't go out into the world much. Having my pit now makes us feel secure at night. I will keep a gun. I know how to handle a shot gun, rifle, hand gun and a knife. I will use one if I have to. Wallander, I understand what you are saying, but not many victims would want to go face to face with a predator that changed their lives. I wouldn't want to come face to face with the one that hurt me and my daughter definitely couldn't(unless we could hand out our own justice). I have also been at the front of a gun barrel twice in my life. The Great Spirit kept me safe and protected me. Why what happened to me at 28 I don't understand, but I've learned to handle it. That's also why I teach kids and show by example love, respect for all life, kindness, gentleness, tenderness, etc. because one day they will be teens and adults. I want them to know something besides violence or being violent one day. It has to start when kids are small. Now very elderly women are being raped. My own personal life is different, I would kill to protect myself and family. If people from Canada do not deal with all the violence that criminals in America do (and most get by with their crime, because of our justice system), I am very happy for you and you are lucky. Anyone that says American people are paranoid. It is not paranoia when it is real. Our weapons should not be taken away from us. The criminals will always have theirs. Amanda 05/20/08 7:04pm First off to me it is a simple matter of keeping a person from doing something like raping or murdering again. I have already confronted my assailant. While it did give me the satisfaction of turning the tables it does not replace the fact he is still out there, still free and who knows if he will do it again. Exactly what makes his life so important that he should be allowed freedom to wander around and be a threat to others? Ed 05/20/08 2:12pm I understand your logic on this but, having the relatives or victims meet on and on with the rotten criminal to me will not heal the pain but bring it up over and over again. Once the criminal is punished (Dead) the relatives and victims know that this animal will no longer hurt or kill any other innocent person again. Wallander 05/20/08 1:28pm I honestly think you guys are being rather too short-sighted about the kinds of "punishments" you support for those hardcore criminals. They're NOT even punishments! If anything, those criminals actually get to escape having to bear the SHAME that they DESERVE to carry for the rest of their miserable lives. The BEST way imho to punish a criminal(who belong to either the murderer, the pedophile, or the rapist category) is to penetrate into their CONSCIENCE & make them feel remorseful for the rest of their lives. The best type of punishment that i visualize here, is for instance, forcing the criminal individual to meet with the family(families) of his/her victims face to face, 2 times a week, for a period of upto 3-5 yrs.! Ofcoarse those families should not be allowed to take justice into their own hands, but should do everything in their powers to psychologically break-down that man/woman. You will be surprised just how INTENSELY painful such a process can be for these criminals! Anyways i can go on & on about the hows & whys i think this would be a MUCH MORE superior idea to just killing these ppl, but ofcoarse i also recognize the fact that you guys have a different view on this issue, & may not agree with the kind of methods i suggest. Peace. :-) Pat 05/20/08 12:04pm Those eastern countries have been chopping fingers, hands and feet off, burning out eyes, stonings, etc. for thousands of years. They haven't fell apart yet. I don't believe in dictatorship when I say this, just stating a fact. The only reasonable solution for rapists and pedophiles, if some people don't want death for them, then at least castrate them. But men aren't the only sexual predators now, there are more and more women doing this also. Hard core prisoners should have no rights or priviledges in prison. The person they severely hurt in any way or murdered didn't have their rights. The families of the victims didn't have their rights. Even if all murderers, rapists, stalkers, pedophiles, etc. were killed off, we would still have the problem later on again. If you check these people's pasts into early childhood, there are always a reason they grew up that way. I'm not trying to make an excuse for them, but it's the truth. It doesn't mean I wouldn't protect myself or anyone else from them anyway I could. That's the only reason why in the last poll I talked about teaching (and by example) kids love, respect for life, kindness, gentleness, tenderness, etc. is because you never know what each kid is going to grow up to do. Many, many kids just in this nation(not even counting around the world)never see this. As far as some on here agreeing with banning guns...give several examples of getting the guns off the street and the black market. I'd like to hear some sensible solutions to that. The ones against the ban gave reasons why guns shouldn't be taken out of every single home in this nation. If you were at home by yourself at day or night and had a chance to grab a gun to protect yourself when someone broke in to rape, torture, beat and/or murder you or a family member, you know you would grab a gun. Put yourself in the place of the people that didn't even have a chance to grab a gun or one that didn't agree with owning a gun at all. Do you think the criminal cares that you are against guns? No. That just makes it more fun for them. Ed 05/20/08 11:43am Amanda I am very sorry for what happened. You are a very courageous person to let everyone know about this. As I said before, they should be killed and you are a perfect example why. They are released and you are still suffering. It is like you have the prison sentence and of course they go on because they don'g give a ****. That just pisses me off even more. Juanita Maria Gomez 05/20/08 11:16am Paula, you make me laugh. Sorry but you do. I shake my head in wonder. Did you ever take American history? Your constitutional right to bear arms was an amendment written into your constitution because your new independent country was busy taking the land away from the American natives and if it wasn't the American natives, it was the British. You had just finished a war with Britain because of the that oh so terrible Stamp Tax. Those nasty, Brits. Even after 1776, the US wasn't happy and tried to take Canada. (1812) No wonder you were given the right to bear arms. It was because your leaders felt it was okay to take the land away from other people. You have a militia, (national guard, you have the arrmed forces, you're up to your neck in arms, & your crime is still high, your murder rate is astronomical compared to other western countries and if you think you have freedom because you own a gun, you're wrong. You're a paranoid country, your society is paranooid, (if it isn't a Communist under everyone's bed, it's a terrorist) and the worst thing about being in Canada is that your guns are coming into our country too. And guess what, our murder rate due to hanguns etc. has gone up too. aw-off Amanda 05/20/08 11:07am Speaking from the perspective of a molestation victim, yes the one who did it should not be allowed to walk the face of the earth. Why? Simple...there is no rehabbing a sex offender of any sort at all..that has already been proven. What about my life and what he killed in me? What about the sentence I carry forever? Too harsh? How do you think I feel knowing the SOB now has a daughter? How do you think I feel about not knowing whether or not he did anything else to anyone else? How do you think I feel about all of that? Yes the rapists, murderers and child molesters deserve death. Why the hell are we feeding them..housing them when they are going to get out and move somewhere and do it all over again? Better still do you not realize that all prison is now is a college for criminals? You go in sort of bad and come out with a wealth of information on new ways to commit and get away with more crime. Give me my gun and I will be happy to shoot the one who thinks he is going to make a victim out of me yet again. Ed 05/20/08 10:22am Hey, I don't know about you but as for myself and I am sure others don't deserve a good beating as you put it. I am not a criminal and never have been one. If all the Murderer's, Rapists, Stalkers and Child Molesters have been killed like they should of been we would not be talking about this, because the justice system would not let them out of prison to commit more crimes, they would be gone. I don't consider that harsh punishment as you put it. What about the families of the victims, they have to live with what happened to their loved ones while the criminals get a second, third, fourth and even fifth chance. That's the ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!! Paula 05/20/08 10:18am Ban something we have a first ammendment right to have? What makes the U.S.A. different from every other country in the world? Simple. Our freedoms. Let them take those freedoms' away. . . For any reason. . . THINK people. Wallander 05/20/08 9:47am It seems to me the very methods you condone, have been tried over and over and over again thru out the whole human history, and in all fairness they have not exactly been a success. If they did, then we would not be having these discussions here in 2008. And if HARSH punishments were such a great thing, then we should all strive to give ourselves a good beating once in a while! 2ndly i should also say that just because you shout the loudest, it doesnt make what you say the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Ed 05/20/08 8:46am Rehab does not work for criminals, they know some stupid idiot will give them another chance so they wait and when they get out it happens again, most of the time committing something worse then the previous crime. As far as giving them HBO and letting them get college degrees in prison, Hell No! They need to pay for what they did to society, and the families that will never be the same. Again I say if they murder, Rape, Robbery, Stalking someone or a child molestor. They should be killed, plain and simple. The rest should be on a chain gang working everyday hard labor. No time for TV and studying to get a degree. I guarantee we would not have the crime we have now. Our prisons would not be full so they let out criminals because of overcrowding. Wallander 05/20/08 7:47am No i did NOT necessarily claim that the other methods were effective. But im afraid you're a little too black&white in your views of the results of rehab. There are plenty of ppl who finish their educations when in prison. How about them? Why wont you acknowledge & encourage them, instead of this constant negativity about the other group who are a bit more challenging to deal with? Maybe if this constant stigmatizing of the criminals did not exist, then we would have seen many more more criminals being effectively rehabilitated?! I'm not defending the hardcore criminals, mind you. I'm just saying we must continue to work & find more intelligent solutions to the problems that you're addressing. It's definitely a challenge, but why should that deter us from trying to find a reasonable solution to these problems? Amanda 05/20/08 7:33am Oh I guess all the the HBO, weight rooms and free meals for the murderers and thieves is working well right? I guess rehab is the cure all for a rapist pig. Wallander 05/20/08 7:29am Ha ha, that certainly sounds like the islamistic idctatorship of Iran, or other countries with "shari'a" laws! Cutting off the hands of a thief or other gross physical punishments with regards to petty crimes, is NOT only bruttal and animalistic, it is also a clear indication of a civilization that is on its way to TOTAL self-destruction. The French author Victor Hugo wrote his masterpiece "Les Misérables" which was meant as a reflection of the fall of the French Monarchy, and it looks as though America is on its way to a similar path. The harsher the laws of a society, the more and more the same said society will fall apart. Amanda 05/20/08 6:15am Nope..you won't get rid of all the guns..we won't give them up. Sorry. If you want to solve the issue, start executing sorry criminals that rape and murder..cut the hand off a thief. Pat 05/20/08 5:59am I know you weren't slamming me, I was agreeing with you. I just wanted to explain in more detail how it didn't make my kids psycho from discipline since so many parents raise kids to do exactly what they want and it is those kids and ones that are abused that are very problem teens. Ed 05/20/08 4:01am Well, Well, Well another koolaid drinking Michael Moore idiot follower. Wake up from you koolaid stuppor because there is no way to get rid of all the guns. The Law abidding citizen will not have one but the criminals will get then and use them on the innocent citizen. duh! think about it. Tim I agree with you and I say that Family Guy episode it was pretty good. Pat my comment on spanking kids was not a slam to you or any other good parent who took the time to love an nuture their kids. I am talking about the liberals that let their kids run a muck, no discipline, no time spent with their kids, pushing them off with money so they are not bothered with them. So when they get into trouble like Columbine and the other shootings they are shocked that their kids did this. They hide from society and put blame everywhere except where the blame should be and with them. If they kept tabs on their kids (and there were signs, non of that would of happened). I agree that when I am out in public and see kids running a muck and the parents are not doing anything about it I would like to smack the parents. Liberals have to stop trying to tell us what is right and wrong. They are full of ****!!! Liberals need to know the difference between disciplining a child and abuse. Since they don't discipline their own kids how are they going to know the difference. Pat 05/19/08 3:24pm Bam Bam, we didn't buy gas either. I like your comment about stricter laws and severe punishment just for the plain fact that too many adults, teens and even kids are getting by with too many crimes. Everyone...more than 100,000 people a year die from hospital mistakes. That's more than "guns kill", even more than car accidents kill. Tim, I agree. I'd like to know the difference in a major city and a small town when it comes to banning guns. Ed, I spanked(not beat and not abuse) my kids. It didn't damage them a bit. They got grounded also. They hated that worse than any spanking. They didn't scream, kick, hit, bite or pinch me, either like I see a lot of kids do their parents when I am out and about. Manuel, one thing I agree with...this nation was built on murder and genocide. If guns are banned in this nation, that will not cause crimes to stop. Before the invention of guns there was still a lot of murders and crime. All you have to do is check back in history. Tim 05/19/08 2:16pm Cowboy: Your comment and view is shared by many Americans, and it is unfortunate, because you and others are advocating shooting and killing people as a means of establishing your territory, and as a means of freeing your country... what do you think, Cowboy? That if you go around shooting everybody who stands in your way you will somehow 'free' your country? sounds like a case of mass murder rather than freedom, violence instead of peace to me. Care to back up your argument, partner? Manuel: I don't know if gun makers should be shot... but you are right, it is the idiots who kill people with their guns. Unfortunately your argument doesn't really go very deep, because you seem to be implying that we could somehow screen all of the idiots from the responsible people. And besides that, if guns are banned, those very same idiots will find a way to get a hold of a gun some other way. This is just another, more deadlier version of the drug use arguments... if they want it, they will find a way to get it, unless it is wiped from the face of the earth. Heh, on a lighter note, this reminds me of that Family Guy episode where Stu turns into a mutant octopus, and starts going on a rampage just after everyone starts burning all of their guns... Manuel 05/19/08 1:58pm Guns made this country? How about this country was built on murder and genocide? violence begets violence. Michael Moore has more intelligence is his fingernail than some of the stupid comments I am reading today. idiots with guns kill people. if they have no guns, it is harder for them to kill. Guns disassociate themselves from the victim so that it is almost a video game. Criminals should be severely punished but so should the idiots who make guns in the first place. Ed 05/19/08 1:01pm Amanda I think it started in the 60's when there was free love, drugs the Vietnam War. It seemed back then that people lost respect for each other. Our boarders were another issue. We were and are still letting in any yahoo that wants to come over. I remember that before the 60's everyone watched out for each other and jumped in to help another person if they were in trouble. Now you could be dying in the street and people will run you over if you don't get out of the way. The reasoning behind that is people are afraid they will be sued if they help. Liberals are also a big part of this. You can't spank you child anymore. I don't care what they say a pat on the ass will not hurt them. The liberals need to know the difference between discipline and child abuse. What the hell is that about. So they then turn out bad and shoot other students. Then everyone asks why. Discipline in the home is very important. Parents need to be there for their kids, not just giving them money to get them out of the way so the parents are not bothered. Boy I could go on and on and on. Cowboy 05/19/08 12:39pm Your all full of it guns made this nation and freed this nation look at your history befor you complane Amanda 05/19/08 12:26pm You know what kills me is that before our age of crime and drugs we never had this issue..anyone wish to take a guess as to why? Tim 05/19/08 11:53am Ed is right, of course. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. But there is another side to this as well. Guns are made for one thing and one thing alone; to kill things. That being said, there are many things in a persons possession that could kill people, and are meant for only the same purpose. Archery bows are a good example, as are things like swords (often used for decorational purposes, but not always). but the difference between these things and a gun is that all it takes is a bullet in the chamber and a slight squeeze of a trigger to shoot off something like a twelve gauge and blow off some little kids head or limb. So this topic cannot really ever come to a satisfying answer for a majority, because really it all comes down to how responsible the gun owner is with his or her weaponry. Should they be banned in all major cities? Whats the difference between a major city and a minor city? The population? In the end it doesn't really matter if the population is 30,000 or 300,000; if someone wants to purposely go around shooting someone with their shiny new toy, they're going to do it regardless of the size of the city. You can't ban the guns, because many people use them for sport: hunting, shooting range, etc. The thing with people carrying a 9 at their side is that the person will often be very keen to use it as a way to do more than just protect themselves if they get into danger. Pull it out at the first sign of trouble, shoot the wrong person, shoot the person when all they were doing was trying to jack your wallet... frankly, a large majority of a cities population isn't capable of understanding for themselves what kind of situation a weapon like that would need to be used for, and would suddenly decide to turn into a cop without a badge, vigilante style. So basically, I do not think guns should be banned, only handled responsibly like every other weapon on this earth. And definitely not toted around a well populated city center... don't feel safe? Carry a knife or leave the city. When there is a time that we don't need weapons, then we should ask this question, and not as a question of banning and law enforcement, but as a question of mutual agreement among the citizens. Pat 05/19/08 11:48am I'd hate to see the government try to ban all guns and the law try to take them away. There are a lot of people in this nation that will fight if they are pushed into giving their guns up. I don't blame them, because who will protect us from the criminals? It just doesn't make any sense at all. I have lived in Fl. for over twenty years and have come to dislike it very much. We have a business here, but one day we will move with our business and go back to where we originally came from. Did you know that Jacksonville has the highest murder rate out of all the other cities in Fl.? There is no way the law should come into anyone's home and take their guns when they only have them to protect themselves. Why don't they take them from all the gangs? The law always know where they are. It is very true that crime will escalate faster if we don't have some kind of protection, because the criminals can do whatever they want and laugh while they are doing it. They know the gun ban won't hurt them in the least. I love all life and I wouldn't want to be in a situation I was in years ago again. Like Amanda, if I am forced into survival mode, I will use a gun or whatever I can get my hands on. We also have a baseball bat at the front door and a huge knife in our car and I do know how to use a knife to protect myself(against one person though, not more than one), so that still wouldn't be as safe. An ex-boyfriend taught me years ago. My daughter carries mace on her key ring. If I can put someone down without taking a life, I will, but if that doesn't stop them until the law comes, then I only have the last option. I can still see both sides of the coin. If a family or friend loses someone to a gun, they are more apt to be against guns. They need to understand that everyone that owns a gun is not a criminal(or insane). Ed 05/19/08 10:21am I know, I know I am getting ticked off again! I can't help it when I read some of the idiotic comments from Jennifer and Nick. First of all kiddies guns don't kill, people kill people. It seems you both do not understand that, and if you are using references from the AssHole Michael Moore that explains alot. Criminals need to serve more time in jail and I mean hard labor, no TV, going to school. If they kill or rape someone, execute them on the spot. Child preditors and molestors also execute on the spot. The rest should be on a chain gang. I'm telling you we would have less crime. I think if the government showed some balls and held these idiots accountable for their actions crime would go down and the world be a better place. Less scum on the earth......Have A Nice Day! Amanda 05/19/08 9:08am Don't hold back Ed..tell us how you really feel Ed 05/19/08 9:04am I have been reading all the comments this morning and a few of us out there have no idea what is happening in the world. We have the right to bear arms! I don't want some idiot trying to tell me that it is the guns that kill when it is the person using the gun. Every law abidding citizen has the right to own a gun to protect themselves and their families and property. I would not hesitate to shoot and kill anyone who trys to hurt or kill my loved ones. Taking our guns away would be tragic, because we know the criminals would still have them and crime would sky rocket and more innocent people would be hurt or killed. People who want to disarm us law abidding citizens are idiots plan and simple!!! Amanda 05/19/08 8:14am Jennifer you are the one who doesn't get it. First off how the hell do you know why people commit suicide? There are myriad of ways as Jeff pointed out. I have two uncles that did it, one via smothering himself and the other with a lethal dose of alcohol and pills. People who educate themselves on the proper use and care of fire arms don't have accidents. As Jeff and I both have said all banning guns will do is take them out of the law abiding persons hands..NOT THE CRIMINALS! What that would do is leave the home owner/business owner totally without protection and their lives forfeit. I owned a gun and had to use it and I am here to tell you..it was mine and my daughters life or the **** that broke in..who do you think came out on top? I did because I am here to tell about it. True, I did not actually have to shoot the invader, but only because he at least was smart enough to do exactly what I told him which was to get the hell out of my house. Fact..there are people out there that their only intent is to hurt,maim and kill and steal..don't tell me I need to have pity for them or I need not protect myself. As Pat pointed out..the coips come too late..and sometimes too late means you die or are raped..screw that. Pat 05/19/08 7:55am As much as I respect life, that doesn't mean the person down the street, in a car or walking somewhere, etc. feel the same way. My mom, my daughter and I live on a corner lot without any light anywhere. We have had people jumping our fence trying to outrun the law and the K-9's. Helicopters flying low over our home. It used to be a very safe neighborhood, but criminals are much braver now, since the law is really more for the criminals. They come from outside the neighborhood and are always up to no good. In broad daylight with my daughter at home alone, a truck load of men backed up to our gate and jumped it and my daughter walked outside face to face with them, she immediately backed up inside the door and locked it and called the cops. They where going to steal our lawnmower. They didn't succeed the first time. We hid the lawnmower better and I'll be damned if a week later, they came back and my daughter walked outside on them again. This time they were putting it over the gate and stole it. She called the law, both times they came in at least 4 to 5 minutes, but the men were gone. I knew my daughter could possibly be in danger, since now they know she is alone so my mom and I went to a gun shop, had to wait the alloted time for the background check, then went back and bought a small shot gun that is easy for a woman to use. My mom has a .38 special and a very small revolver. We didn't even have bullets for those and they were put away. We now have them where we can get to them and have bullets and shells for the shot gun. On my birthday 2006, I saved a puppy from running the streets, I couldn't find who owned her. Everyone said she was a pit bull (not the kind with the funny face). I took her to the vet and she is chipped as a boxer mix. She is always in training and is such a good girl, (and a magnificent protector), but that is another story. I will use a gun on anyone that tries to harm us in our home. Guns should never be banned from people that need them for protection, the guns would never be banned from the criminals, there are too many on the black market that will never be retrieved. I do believe that a lot of gun shops don't do their job well though. A lot of them don't do background checks. I hear on the news where little kids get to them and accidentally kill a sibling or themselves, because the parents didn't have them locked up tight. Parents that have small kids and guns should ALWAYS talk about the dangers of guns to their kids. Their are a lot of mentally sick adults, teenagers and kids in the world that can get to guns that shoot up businesses, schools, colleges and even road rage. Gangs will ALWAYS have them, they can even make their own. So tell me where does that leave all of us that would only use them in a life or death situation or from getting beat and raped, then killed and use them to protect our family members? With a shot gun and hand guns and a pit, I don't worry about my daughter at home alone or when we are in bed. Jennifer 05/19/08 6:56am Jeff, again, you are missing the point. If a society has a problem and guns in the US are a problem, the issue should be addressed. If there is a sudden epidemic of people diving off a bridge to commit suicide, don't you think the government or concerned citizens would try to intervene? Death with a gun is quick & maybe if used right, relatively painless. Maybe that's why people commit suicide using firearms. People who commit suicide are usually depressed & don't think things through so having a large supply of guns with easy access isn't helping their state of mind. So you're saying just because these people committed suicide, it doesn't matter? Like Nick said. GUNS KILL. Watch Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11 and tell me guns aren't a problem in the US. I shudder to think when the next time I pick up my paper and read about another Columbine killing or disgruntled postal worker who in a fit of rage, systematically slays whoever's annoyed them or happens to come by. The US has been war-like since 1776 and it's ingrained in your culture. Thank God I live in Canada where for the most part, sanity and common sense, prevails. Jeff 05/18/08 8:52pm Jennifer, 58% of that figure you quoted is death from suicide. Someone wanting to take their own life can easily achieve this goal in a myriad of other ways making the gun completely irrelevant. Lumping in that number, as well as accidental deaths, and deaths (from self defense) further diminishes the relevance of that figure. I read somewhere that a conservative estimate of incidents where crimes are prevented because of guns is about 100,000 per/year. To put things in perspective, in 1999, there were 6.2 million car accidents in the US. Out of that number, 3.4 million resulted in injuries, and 41,611 were fatal. Should we ban the use of cars? I read that statistically only about 13% of people in the US who use guns to commit crimes actually bought them legally. Banning guns means confiscating 100% of guns bought legally. That means criminals with their illegal weapons would have far less of a deterrent to use those weapons when committing crimes. Wallander 05/18/08 7:05pm This is one MAJOR reason why im so thankful for NOT living in the USA! ;-D Jennifer 05/18/08 4:07pm I agree with Nick and you're missing his point. Some Statistics from the USA In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States - over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).) that is the highest in the world. So you don't think you have a problem? Amanda. 05/18/08 7:07am Jeff and others I agree. Guns don't kill. People looking to kill with a gun don't buy them legally. Do you know why we have never been invaded by an army from another country? because the citizens are armed and will shoot..let alone our military. Yes I am aware of the world trade center, however that was terrorism, not an attack from a military from a foreign country. Too..as it has been pointed out it takes a person to fire the gun. You can use anything as a weapon and lets not forget those who have been beaten and strangled to death by someones hand..what are we going to do..amputate people in hopes to not have that happen. Nick, pure foolishness. Jeff 05/18/08 1:22am Unfortunately people like Nick continue to ignore the simple fact that banning guns has been shown time and again to increase crime. I explained this earlier, Maverickmuse explained it, but Nick and is ilk ignore us because all they see in their tunnel vision is a gun firing by itself. They blame everyone but the person pulling the trigger. If someone takes a baseball bat and beats another person to death, it's the baseball bat manufacturer that's at fault. If someone stabs another person with a knife, it's the knife manufacturer’s fault, or the store that sold it. Banning screwdrivers, golf clubs, slingshots, or anything that can be used as a weapon does nothing to stop a person who is hell bent on killing. Banning guns disarms law-abiding citizens. Disarming law-abiding citizens paves the way for criminals to murder and plunder their fellow man with little concern for their own safety. Come on Nick, if guns are outlawed in the US, who do you think will actually give them up? Criminals? Criminals by definition break the law. The reason very few people have their homes burglarized in the US while at home is because of guns. Guns are a major deterrent to crime, and if you look at US States or countries with strict gun control laws you will see that crime increased significantly from the point it was enacted without fail. Self-preservation is our basic right. There has been PLENTY of widespread bloodshed way before guns were invented. Just go back several hundred or thousand years in our bloody history and there can be no doubt. Those without weapons or training have always been vanquished throughout history. Self defense is one of our most fundamental rights and obligations, not just for mankind but for all species of animals that ever crawled the earth. Nick 05/17/08 8:35pm Amanda, with all due respect, get your head out of the sand. Guns Kill and too many people in society profit from the sale of arms. How many massacres, assassinations murders do you need? How much blood has to be spilled before you realize the problem is guns and the outdated childish constitutional right to bear arms cry that so many Americans like to roar while beating their chests. If as many people died from hatchets as handguns then the sane thing to do would be to punish those reponsible & license hatchets. Maverickmuse 05/17/08 7:13pm The places with the tightest gun control, Britain is a prime example,also experiences increases in crime. Facts are facts. Criminals do not care about rules and regulations. Protect the innocent citizens by making guns and rifles illegal? Lets get real and make it mandatory that every good citizen be entitled to safety classes. Concealed weopons, by intellegent, honorable, and level-headed adults protects everyone except the criminals! Amanda 05/17/08 7:02pm Nick that is the most foolish thing I have ever heard of. There is a huge difference between why tobacco companies are responsible and gun manufacturers are not. The tobacco industry WILLINGLY put far more nicotine in the ciggs..there for making quitting damn near impossible and we won't mention all the other additives that are not found in natural tobacco. In other words they didn't have to do that. Guns per se sit on a shelf..sit on a store room display and do nothing. It takes a HUMAN to load them, a HUMAN to aim them and a HUMAN to fire them. In other words it would be the same thing as suing a hatchet making company because so many people were hacked to death or a knife company for making a knife so many were stabbed with..rediculous. Nick 05/17/08 6:44pm It's time to make the gun manufacturers responsible for the suffering of innocent victims. If tobacco companies can get sued for encouraging people to lost their health, gun manufacturers & al those who make money from selling guns, as well as the criminals, should be dealt with severely & made to pay for the innocent victims. It's funny that there are more deaths in the US than countries they are at war with. When are you people going to wake up. GUNS KILL. Simple as that and those that profits from guns should be held responsible. Amanda 05/17/08 4:09am I did what I always do...walked but good for you Bam Bam! Bush was told no by the Saudis..what was he thinking..why would they pump more when they are making a killing off of us? Damn is he stupid or what? Bam Bam 05/16/08 8:02pm I didn't buy any gas yesterday!! And we conserved what we had. How about everyone else? It's almost $4 a gallon here! What a bunch of BS! Amanda 05/16/08 4:53pm Actually they now do require the same at gun shows..and it isn't going to matter. Last year in Florida a young boy of 12 was shot in the back of the head by his friend. As it turned out his friend had bought a gun from a guy known to sell them..these are twelve year old boys. He did not mean to kill his friend..it was an accident. They finally traced the gun back to the dealer and convicted him of manslaughter..no gun laws won't matter a bit and truth be told they never have. If I want a gun, I can get one and not have it registered..We need to focus on illegal gun sales and convict those people, not the legal gun sales. BamBam 05/16/08 2:40pm I think we need stricter laws for getting them. Look how that kid at V tech got his. A gun show where there were no laws requiring application for criminal and mental back ground checks. I'm afraid guns aren't the problems anymore...people are. Somewhere in our society someone said it was okay to harm other human beings and someone believed it. It's almost as if we can't shock each other anymore, so we keep trying to out do the last dumb ass. Personally, I'm sick of violence and killing. I think we should enforce stricter punishments. SEVERE punishments for killers and maybe some of these kids out there will start thinking a little more sensibly. Yeah right.l Jeff 05/16/08 11:36am I couldn't have said it better myself. Banning guns only insures that law abiding citizens are disarmed and therefore vulnerable. Strict gun control was implemented in Britain and look what happened. The use of hand guns in Britain increased by almost 50% AFTER they were outlawed. Over 50% of English burglaries occur while the occupant is at home. Compare that to 13% in the US. I read an article that said you are 6 times more likely to get mugged in London than you would be in New York City. Amanda 05/16/08 5:03am What people don't realize is that gun control laws don't keep guns out of the hands of criminals, only out of the hands of those who want them for sport (hunting) or home or personal protection. Any person who is going to use a gun to commit a crime is NOT going to go through the back ground checks and have it registered to their name.Too, this is again unconstitutional and even Washington D.C. has had to rescind their gun laws due to that fact. If anything we need to crack down on black market gun sales and cut the head off the snake. Ed 05/16/08 4:58am I disagree. We should be able to own a gun or rifle. Taking them away will only let the criminals have weapons. And you know that banning guns the criminals we get them illegally, so why disarm an honest law abidding citizen. If some jerk wants to break in to my business or home I want the right to blow him away so he never does it again. We also need to change the length of time criminals get jail time. Robbery should be life, Rape should be death, Murder should be a death sentence. Child Molestation immediate death. And if someone is sent to death row. They should be put to death immediately. Not years and years later. Criminals know that they will get off that is why we have so much crime.